Document Information
Date: 1903-07-20
By: Canada (Parliament)
Citation: Canada, House of Commons Debates, 9th Parl, 3rd Sess, 1903 at 6946-6949.
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6946
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Government of the North-west Territories— additional grant required for schools, clerical assistance, printing, &c., $250,000.
The MINISTER OF THE INTERIOR. As the leader of the opposition is aware, this is the item that will enable us to pay the deficit of the last six months in the government of the North-west Territories. In the supplementary estimates for the coming year we are going to ask for $250,000. more to add to the subsidy of the North-west Territories, and I would ask my hon. friend the leader of the opposition to defer the full discussion of the financial state of the North-west Territories until that vote comes up, on account of the absence of some of my hon. friends from the North-west Territories who desire to be present when it takes place. Several of the western members are absent. I will then make a full statement. This $250,000. we desire to pay at once to the North-west government to cover their deficit for the last year. They have expended the full amount of their vote, and we cannot give them any more until this vote is passed. The $250,000 that we are going to ask for will be in addition to the subsidy for the last year.
Mr. BORDEN (Halifax). What is the total amount including this?
The MINISTER OF THE FINANCE. This makes it about $700,000.
The MINISTER OF THE INTERIOR. The amount last year was $457,000.
Mr. BORDEN (Halifax). I have no objection to pursuing the course the hon. gentlemen has suggested so far as making a statement is concerned. I think it important to have the documents we were speaking of this afternoon, printed and in an intelligible shape, and placed before the members of the House before that vote comes up. I do not know whether the hon. gentlemen was in the house when I drew attention to some documents which have not been brought down in connection with the return respecting provincial autonomy.
The MINISTER OF THE INTERIOR. I was away when that motion for the return
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was passed I think a large number of these letters refer to the financial matters and say nothing about provincial autonomy.
Mr. BORDEN (Halifax). There are perhaps four or five documents which I enumerated in the House to-day which come within this description, but many of the deal for the most part with financial matters, and shortly also with the question of provincial autonomy. It would be well to have the whole situation placed before the House, because the documents will be required in order to enable the House to judge whether this vote should be passed. They might as well be printed in one pamphlet.
The MINISTER OF THE INTERIOR. We will have the return made up, including all the correspondence.
Mr. BORDEN (Halifax). Would the hon. gentlemen be good enough to expedite that, because it would be important to have it in a week or ten days before the vote comes up.
The MINISTER OF THE INTERIOR. There will be no loss of time. Most of the returns ordered by parliament are prepared now, and we can get a special staff and get this report out in two or three days.
Mr. BORDEN (Halifax). The hon. gentlemen does not quite understand me. I said it would be very desirable to have this return in the hands of hon. members a week or ten days before the vote comes up because this correspondence is rather voluminous, and we want time to study the question.
The MINISTER OF THE INTERIOR. I will undertake to havet it down so that the House can order it to be printed this week.
Mr. CLANCY. I have no doubt that the particular claim that is being made by the territorial government is a proper one. I am not prepared to question that. I believe the the hon. minister is coming to their assistance to relieve them of a deficit that arose from expenditures that were really forced upon them in the interests of the country. Perhaps the hon. gentlemen will explain in detail this vote of $250,000.
The MINISTER OF THE INTERIOR. Briefly, they got a subsidy of $457,000; they spent it all, they were $250,000 short at the end of the year, and we propose to give them $250,000 to supply the deficit.
Mr. CLANCY. I suppose that they gave the hon. gentleman some details as to how the expenditure was made?
The MINISTER OF THE INTERIOR. The correspondence which my hon. friend (Mr. Borden, Halifax) has asked for, and which is very lengthy, goes fully into the financial situation in the North-west Territories,
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and the different items are covered very fully by it. In order to explain the expenditure I would have practically to read the public accounts of the North-west Territories for the last year. They explain the expenditure of the last year as having been urgently necessary, and as a justification for passing beyond the amount of money that had been voted to the territorial government, they state the fact that there was a very great destruction of their public works by reason of the unusual floods which took place all over the country during the year. The largest item of expenditure, I think equally large with the school expenditure, if not larger, is that which is made on roads and bridges, and the general expenditure on highways, and owing to the excessive floods and the vast amount of damage done they had to incur a great deal of expenditure in repairing the damage. As this was in the nature of urgent expenditure, they felt justified in going on and expending money. They were the parties responsible for the work and we are not disposed to say that they were wrong and we ask parliament to vote this $250,000. I do not put this forward as a full and detailed explanation, because I will make that in detail when the vote comes down in connection with the supplementary estimates. As the hon. leader of the opposition has been good enough to agree that the full discussion shall be deferred until then. In the meantime I am going to bring down all the correspondence, in which my hon. friend will find the details of the expenditure, and an explanation given of the causes of the shortage and everything necessary to put the House in possession of the fullest information that we have ourselves.
Mr. BORDEN (Halifax). I think they also claim that the immigration going into the country has made it necessary to establish a great many school sections and also that where settlements are made in new districts it has been necessary to provide roads and bridges to a greater extent than existed before. There are a great many items of this kind on which they base their claim, However, we will have.a full statement from the hon. minister when he comes to the estimates for the coming year. In the meantime, would the hon. minister be good enough to tell us the position of the litigation between on of the municipalities in the North-west Territories and the Canadian Pacific Railway in regard to the Question of Taxation ? If I remember correctly, there were two suits instituted, really on behalf of the government, but nominally by municipalities. One of these municipalities. was in the North-west Territories and another one in the province of Manitoba, and if I remember correctly the decisions in the two cases were somewhat different. Perhaps the hon. gentlemen could give us a brief statement, because I
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know nothing about the matter beyond what I saw in the newspaper, of what the courts did actually decide, and what is the present position of this litigation
The MINISTER OF THE INTERIOR. Does my hon. friend ask me to do that now?
Mr. BORDEN (Halifax). Just very briefly.
The MINISTER OF THE INTERIOR. My hon. friend will understand that although the matter arises in a sense in my own department, I do not follow all the details of the litigation as closely as the hon. Minister of Justice (Hon. Mr. Fitzpatrick), whose business it is to do so. I understand the present position is this : In the North-west Territories the court held that the tax could be collected on Canadian Pacific Railway lands, and that in the province of Manitoba it was held that it could not be collected. I believe that no notice of appeal has been given by the railway company as yet. I say that subject to correction. As my hon. friend has called attention to it, I will have a proper statement of the exact position of affairs from the Department of Justice, and I will give it later on.