Document Information
Date: 1867-12-12
By: Canada (Parliament)
Citation: Canada, House of Commons Debates, 1st Parl, 1st Sess, 1867 at 265-269.
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THE TARIFF
Samuel Tilley [City of Saint John] moved the resolutions respecting the Tariff. He remarked that the Finance Minister had set down $9,121,900, as the amount he expected to receive from Customs. In making this estimate, a good deal of difficulty was experienced, owing to the different circumstances under which they were placed. Intercolonial trade was now free of duty. The duty in the lower Provinces has hitherto been less than in Canada, and a considerable quantity of goods has been imported into those Provinces, which will be forwarded to the West as soon as this law comes into effect, which abolishes the duty between the several Provinces. But they had these data:—In 1866, under the tariff of Nova Scotia and New Brunswick; and in 1867, under the tariff of Canada, the united amount received from customs was $9,286,635—about $160,000 more than the Finance Minister estimated would be received next year from the whole Dominion. In addition to these data, they had returns for four months since 1st July last, showing the amount received from customs to be $3,581,080. Therefore, they might fairly conclude that the estimate of the Minister of Finance was reliable. The Government felt the necessity of having as far as possible a fixed and settled policy with reference to the tariff of the country, that unless some extraordinary expenditure had to be met, the tariff now to be enacted should be one that would stand for five years, so that importers might invest with security. This added to the difficulty Government experienced, and as they could not decide with any certainty what tariff would be required, they had thought it better not to come to a definite conclusion with reference to what might be considered a permanent tariff, but merely to assimilate the tariffs as far as possible throughout the Dominion. He proceeded to advert to the proposed changes in the tariff which, he said, were very limited in number, as far as Canada was concerned, but very extensive as regarded Nova Scotia and New Brunswick—particularly Nova Scotia—the New Brunswick tariff having been to a great extent assimilated to that of Canada last Spring. He would mention the changes as compared with the tariff in the late Province of Canada, on spirits, including brandy, gin, rum, whisky, etc., the duty would be 80¢ per gallon instead of 70¢. In Nova Scotia, the duty on whisky and gin was now 90¢: on rum 75¢; and on brandy and other spirits, $1.20 per gallon. In New Brunswick the duty was 80¢ on brandy, 70¢ on rum, and 60¢ on gin and whisky. The duty on all spirits would now be 80¢. A large increase of revenue was not expected from this source, as the spirits consumed in the Dominion would be largely Canadian manufacture. Brandy, however, and other imported spirits would no doubt yield additional revenue. As regards tobacco, that which will pay 10¢ excise will pay, as at present, 15¢ specific, with an addition to former tariff of 5 per cent ad valorem. The class of tobacco paying 5¢ excise being that manufactured from tobacco grown in Canada, does not of course come within the class of articles charged with customs duties. Domestic wines now paying 15 per cent ad valorem will be charged specific duty with other wines. Ginger, orange, lemon, currant wines, etc. containing not over 25 degrees proof, will pay 10¢ per gallon; and from 20 to 42 degrees
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proof, will pay 25¢. Some of these wines contain large quantities of alcohol, and although the change does not affect the revenue materially, it would prevent the imposition on revenue which might take place on the 15 per cent ad valorem basis. On malt, he proposed to put 40¢ a bushel. The next change he would mention affected the article of tinctures. This had been brought under the notice of Government as one of the articles, too, which was largely manufactured in this country, and it has been determined to put a specific duty on it of 30¢ per gallon. Then it was proposed to reduce the duty on tea and molasses. The Canadian tariff with respect to tea was found not to act fairly as regarded the Lower Provinces. Tea in Canada paid at present 15 per cent ad valorem and 7¢ per pound. He proposed that green tea should remain at that rate, but that black tea should pay 15 per cent ad valorem and 3¢ per pound, the specific rate being reduced one half. The increased duty received from Nova Scotia and New Brunswick would make up the loss in Canada on this article. The present rate on molasses which in Canada was in the interest of the refiners would press hardly on the Lower Provinces. At present, it was 73¢ per hundred weight. He proposed it should be 73¢ if used for refining purposes, and 55¢ if not so used, which was equal to 5¢ a gallon. These were the principal changes proposed at present. The sugar question had been considered, but the Government had not sufficient evidence to justify them in coming before the House at the present time to ask a change. They proposed to take till next part of the session more thoroughly to investigate the matter, and if a change was found desirable to introduce a system which, while it would not injure refiners, would give ample encouragement to importers and would do something to sustain an interest very important to the Maritime Provinces and to the whole Dominion, namely, the West Indies trade. The free list would be the same as that in the late Province of Canada, except some changes in the description of articles. It included an immense number of articles which in Nova Scotia had hitherto paid duty. Some change was made in the description of machinery for manufacturing purposes. The duty on four and meal which was formerly 50¢ per barrel in the Canadian tariff would be 25¢-the same as in Nova Scotia. In New Brunswick hitherto it had been free. Corn remains as it is, 10¢, because he found it entered largely into the manufacture of spirits. In the old Canadian tariff, ship-building materials were free when imported by ship-builders for ship-building purposes. This would have been unfair to the Lower Provinces, where these articles were imported by other than ship-builders, and that qualification was therefore struck out, except with reference to cables, cordage, sailcloth, canvas from No. 1 to No. 6, varnish, black and bright, which were free only when used for ships or vessels. He believed, as regarded Nova Scotia, that taking the $60,000 or $70,000 which had been paid on the 5 per cent, and adding the 10 per cent transferred to the free list, and articles that paid 20 per cent reduced to 15-all this would go far in the reduction of the increased customs arising from the increase of the 10 per cent to the 15 per cent. The Government hoped before the session closed next May, the tariff would be put in a permanent shape, such as might be expected to last for four or five years, with such slight alterations as might from time to time be found necessary, for he scarcely expected a reduction, looking at what would be increased expenditure for the Intercolonial Railroad. It might be found, too, that manufactures would increase so rapidly by the extension of the number of customers that certain articles of importation might diminish, and it might be necessary to take this into consideration.
In reply to James Benson [Lincoln],
Samuel Tilley [City of Saint John] said the export duty on lumber applied only to Ontario and Quebec, as in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick the power of levying export duties was confined to the Local Legislature. The duty at present was on every 1,000 feet of pine, $1; ditto, spruce, 50¢. It was now proposed to make it-saw-logs, pine, $1; saw-logs of all other kinds, 50¢; shingle bolts and stave bolts, per cord, $1.20.
James Benson [Lincoln] thought the export duty should be made $4 per thousand, as it was the American purchasers who paid the duty.
George-Étienne Cartier [Montreal East] then repeated Mr. Tilley’s explanation in French.
Samuel Tilley [City of Saint John] moved the 1st resolution, declaring the expediency of having one uniform tariff for the whole Dominion. Carried. Hon.
Samuel Tilley [City of Saint John] then moved the second resolution relating to Customs duties.
Luther Holton [Châteauguay] observed that on brandy and spirits it was proposed to raise the duty from 70 to 80 cents, while the excise remains as it was. He had heard his honourable friend
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a little while ago speak of the free trade policy of the Government. He should like to know whether this was the part of the free trade policy which the member for Sherbrooke, in proposing his Bill last session, said was to lead to entire free trade throughout? The whole tariff of the present Minister of Customs seemed to be adopting a reactionary policy; he would like to know whether their free trade views were to be abandoned.
Samuel Tilley [City of Saint John] did not know that he had said anything about free trade. If the policy of last session was a free trade policy, then this was also.
Luther Holton [Châteauguay] said this was a proposition to increase the discrimination between customs and excise. We had been led to believe Government intended to assimilate the commercial policy of the Dominion to that of the Empire, and now the first proposition was founded on a reversion of the old exploded protectionist policy.
John Rose [Huntingdon] contended that it was impossible under the existing rate for distillers in Canada to compete with distillers in the States in consequence of their being able to manufacture whisky from damaged wheat.
Alexander Galt [Sherbrooke] could not concur in the view of the Minister of Customs, nor was he convinced by the argument of the Finance Minister. The duty on corn was equal to 2½ cents per gallon, and he believed returns would show that the larger part of the whisky was produced by Canadian distillers. More than that, the returns of imports of whisky would not bear out the statement made by the Finance Minister. He (Mr. Galt) was reluctantly brought to the conclusion that the Government had decided to increase the protection to Canadian distilleries, and he thought it was a move in the wrong direction. One reason why customs and excise duties were placed on a par was to encourage our foreign trade, especially with France from which country we had received every facility to prosecute that trade.
Robert Read [Hastings East] could not agree with the member for Sherbrooke, practical experience teaching him that this small protection now proposed was essential to enable a Canadian distillery to continue operations with any profit.
Thomas Kirkpatrick [Frontenac] took the same view. Without this slight protection, local distilleries could not be kept working, and one of the great markets for farmers would thus be cut off, leaving them to the mercy of speculators.
Timothy Anglin [Gloucester] could not pretend to enter into a consideration of the subject without some time for examination, and he hoped the matter might be left over till to-morrow. The duties could be enforced in the meantime, and if any portion of the tariff was not adopted they could be refunded. A great deal of additional taxation was proposed which would prove very burdensome to the people of the Maritime Provinces. He felt bound to resist by every reasonable effort, every endeavour to increase taxation on the people. He argued that the duty on flour would press very heavily on the people of the Maritime Provinces.
John Rose [Huntingdon] agreed with Mr. Anglin, that the House was not prepared to discuss the resolutions, and he thought that the Government should at once be empowered for the protection of the revenue to put it in force, leaving to the House an opportunity of discussing the several items at a future stage, and in case of change, parties could have the benefit of the refund.
Samuel Tilley [City of Saint John] felt the full force of the remarks just made, especially with respect to the Maritime Provinces, and if the House would pass the resolutions to-night, so that the tariff might at once be put in force throughout the whole Dominion, the Government would be prepared to allow the fullest freedom of discussion on the motion for concurrence.
Albert Smith [Westmorland] protested against the burdens about to be imposed upon the Province of New Brunswick. He instanced the increased duty on spirits, the tax on flour, on bank note circulation, postage on newspapers, etc., additional imposts, and desired to see the votes of members recorded on every item.
John Rose [Huntingdon] said this could not be done in Committee-it could only be done when the Speaker was in the Chair.
Samuel Tilley [City of Saint John] said, as Parliamentary practice had been entirely different in New Brunswick, he could well understand the position of his friend (Hon. Mr. Smith). Here, however, the practice was entirely different. If the House would accept the resolutions to-night, then they would be put in force to-morrow by means of the telegraph, and honourable members would have an opportunity of dividing the House upon each item on the motion for concurrence.
Archibald McLelan [Colchester] argued that the tax on flour was a discriminating impost in favour of
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Quebec and Ontario, and complained that the staple export of Nova Scotia, coal, was to be admitted duty free. He demanded that reciprocity should be established with respect to these two.
Edmund McDonald [Lunenburg] said that an opportunity should be given to every member from Nova Scotia to enter his protest against the additional burdens which were to be imposed upon them to an extent that no political advantages of Union could ever compensate. Already they had found a tax proposed on every poor man who took a newspaper for the information of this family; a stamp tax, an impost unknown to the Maritime Provinces up to this hour, and one which had cost England half this continent. (Hear, hear.) Mr. McDonald referred to other items, and hoped that full time would be given for discussion.
Samuel Tilley [City of Saint John] was most anxious for discussion, to afford him an opportunity of removing the erroneous impression which seemed to prevail with his friends opposite, as to the effect of the tariff on the Maritime Provinces, but that discussion should take place on the motion for concurrence. He considered if it were necessary to increase the revenue, such increase should be effected rather by an imposition upon luxuries than upon articles of necessary consumption by the poor, such as flour or tea. The working of Confederation had not-he said it more in sorrow than in anger-been hitherto such as to strengthen the hands of the friends of Union. (Opposition cheers.)
Charles Fisher [York] regretted that the Government proposed to increase the duty on sugar, molasses, pork and tea in the Lower Provinces. These articles entered largely into the consumption of the people of those Provinces, and increased duties on them would be felt as extremely burdensome. He regretted for the sake of the Union that this measure was proposed, for it would tend to make the Union unpopular and the people discontented.
Alfred Jones [Halifax] asked if the large increase of so many necessary articles of consumption was calculated to increase the affection of the people of Nova Scotia for Union, or whether they were likely to approve the policy of Canadian statesmen, who imposed burdens upon the sister Provinces to provide for their own necessities. The effect of the measures of revenue, introduced two years ago, had been to concentrate the profits of the entire sugar trade of the country into the coffers of the two sugar refineries of Montreal with the consequent loss of a large amount of revenue. This was a consideration which had already been amply impressed upon the Government, and yet he found them proposing to perpetuate the inequitable system through the whole Dominion. This late hour, when the representatives of the Maritime Provinces, being compelled to leave on the following day, had been chosen by the Government to bring down such objectionable propositions in the hopes that they would escape the discussion, which had been vainly challenged earlier in the session. Without some renewal of the Reciprocity Treaty, the people of Nova Scotia, oppressed by these new burdens, would be unable to exist, and to any enactment which in addition to the $2 per barrel imposed upon their carriage of fish to America, would add the charge of another $2 upon each barrel of pork they brought back from the Brazils, he declared that they would not submit. Under these considerations he ought not perhaps to regret the propositions of the Government, but he could not avoid remarking upon the course they had taken to avoid a full and fair discussion.
John Rose [Huntingdon] pointed out that it was fair and necessary that increased revenue should be desired from the Maritime Provinces, because thus far the sum they had drawn from the Dominion largely exceeded the sum con- tributed by them. Of the whole estimated expenditures of sixteen millions this year, there would be expended in Ontario and Quebec, $9,113,000; in Nova Scotia, $2,257,000; in New Brunswick, $1,150,000, with $3,312,000 general expenditure, not specially applicable to any of the Provinces. If a per capita rate of expenditure was taken, it would be found that the expenditure in Ontario and Quebec this year would be $4.70 per head; in Nova Scotia, $7.87, and in New Brunswick, $7.18. (Hear, hear). He thought these facts should have weight with honourable gentlemen from the Maritime Provinces; and, while regretting the necessity of having to allude for one moment to a question of sectional character, he asked the honourable gentlemen from the Maritime Provinces to take them into consideration in that fair, straightforward way which, as British subjects, he knew he could ask at their hands. (Hear, hear).
Joseph Howe [Hants] said that Nova Scotia only got extra the sum necessary to make up its debt of eight millions, while the debt of Canada was not only up to the sixty-two millions provided for under the Union Act, but eighteen millions besides.
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John Rose [Huntingdon], in reply, said that even by excluding the expenditure on public works, which in Nova Scotia went towards making up its debt, the outlay this year in Nova Scotia would be $5.22 per head, and in New Brunswick, $5.11; while in Ontario and Quebec it would be only $4.50 per head. (Hear, hear).
Alfred Jones [Halifax] again spoke at some length. He complained that the Government had purposely kept back the tariff till the last moment, as well as the Intercolonial Railway measure, in order that the representatives of Nova Scotia, who they knew had to leave for their homes to-morrow, might have no opportunity of raising their voices in protest against the great wrong which it was proposed to inflict upon the people of that Province. He contended that the effect of their tariff would be to draw from the people of Nova Scotia $600,000 more than was obtained from the existing tariff. He repeated he was gratified the Government had made these propositions, because it would be found the people of Nova Scotia would not stand the additional burdens they would impose. They would rise against the Government, and by every constitutional means endeavour to shake off the yoke which now bound them helplessly to Canada.
Charles Tupper [Cumberland] said the members from Nova Scotia who talked of returning home to-morrow should, instead of consulting their own convenience, stay until the close of the session, and battle with him for the interests of Nova Scotia. He should always endeavour to promote the interests of the Dominion, but he felt himself more particularly bound to urge the claims of his own Province, and he should always do it upon equitable principles. He did not believe that the interest of Nova Scotia would be promoted by any honourable member making such a statement to the House as had been made by the honourable member for Halifax in the face of public documents which lay on the table, which would show the past and present position of Nova Scotia in relation to the tariff proposed. He then criticized the remarks made by the honourable member for Halifax, showing that many articles upon which a duty of ten per cent had been paid in Nova Scotia were now admitted free. And that the Canadian tariff upon tea, sugar and molasses, etc., had been largely reduced. He wished the Government to consider the propriety of placing a duty upon poultry, upon the same principle as they imposed a duty on flour. In reference to the remark of the member for Halifax that $600,000 would be taken out of the pockets of the people of Nova Scotia, he thought that his honourable friend would not be willing to receive every dollar of the revenue collected in Nova Scotia under this tariff as independent of the Union, and be chargeable for the money to be paid out of the Treasury of the Dominion on account of Nova Scotia.
Archibald McLelan [Colchester] would have been glad if it had been possible for him to remain longer at the Capital, were it only for the pleasure of seeing the honourable member for Cumberland in the novel and unaccustomed part he had promised them of doing battle for his country. He examined the statement of account presented on Saturday to prove that a profit had accrued to the Dominion from Nova Scotia connection, during the past five months, of nearly one thousand dollars per day.
Joseph Howe [Hants] would suggest that the resolutions should be passed through Committee to-night, as no object could be gained from the protracted discussion at that late hour (one o’clock) or form a division in Committee, in which none of them could record their names. The House might be divided on the motion for concurrence, but the late sittings to which they were becoming accustomed, involved a tax that had not yet been touched upon-a tax upon their brains. He knew that, now that the ice had set, he could be in case of the worst, easily preserved until Spring, but he preferred on the whole to reach home alive. (Laughter.)
John A. Macdonald [Kingston] said the Government would see to it that the question of concurrence would be brought up early tomorrow, so that Nova Scotia members could discuss them before leaving for their homes.