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Date: 1867-04-25
By: Prince Edward Island (House of Assembly)
Citation: Prince Edward Island, House of Assembly, The Parliamentary Reporter; or, Debates and Proceedings of the House of Assembly of Prince Edward Island, For the Year 1867, 23rd Parl, 1st Sess, 1865 at 38-45.
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Volunteer and Militia Grant.
Hon. ATTORNEY GENERAL then submitted a resolution, placing at the disposal of the Commander-in-Chief a sum not exceeding £2,500, for expenses in maintaining the Volunteer and Militia forces in this Island. He remarked that, in last year’s appropriation, no specific sum had been granted for this purpose; there was a general resolution passed, placing the entire revenue at the disposal of the Commander-in-Chief, for defences. In order to arrive at an idea of the amount which would be required during the current year for the purpose expressed in the resolution, it would be necessary to look at the amounts which had been expended during the last year, and at the Report which had been submitted by the Inspecting Field Officer of Militia. During the last year, a large sum had been expended in building drill sheds, under the general resolution which he had referred to. He did not intend, though there was some difference of opinion on the subject, to quarrel with the late Government on the question whether the building of those sheds came properly under the head of defence, nor did he know whether, when the grant was given, such an expenditure was contemplated under it. In estimating, then, the sum expended last year, as a means of arriving at the amount which would now have to be granted, the cost of the sheds would have to be deducted from the gross expenditure, and thus a balance of £3373 would remain, representing the sum expended on the other matters connected with the militia and volunteers. In the Report of the Inspecting Field Officer of Militia, which had been submitted to the House, £3,800 was the sum which, under the present organization, that officer recommended the Government to provide. They had, however, after looking at all the circumstances of the case, concluded that a larger sum than £2500 the Colony could not afford. They had examined the estimates, and thought that all that was necessary could perhaps be done within that sum. Besides the amount referred to as the expenditure of last year, there was an item of £1648 7s. 11d for the Victoria Barracks; but this did not come under the resolution before hon. members.
Hon. LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION observed that the Supply Bills were passing through committee entirely too harmoniously; but, though it was as a rule the duty of an Opposition to oppose every measure brought in by the Government, he did not intend to bring the weight of his side of the House to bear against the grant which had been proposed. As a loyal subject of Her Gracious Majesty, enjoying the liberty to be found only under the flag which had “braved a thousand years the battle and the breeze,” he did not intend to oppose the resolution moved by the hon. Attorney General. He was, however, surprised at one observation made by that hon. gentleman. He had appeared to throw some doubt upon the legality of the construction of the drill sheds under the Resolution of last Session, which had placed the whole revenue at the disposal of the Government for the defence of the Colony. He (Mr. Haviland) thought that, if the hon. member would read the Resolution, he would see that the building of the sheds was quite within its spirit. The clause read as follows:—
“Resolved, That in consequence of the threatened invasion of the British Colonies by bands of Fenian marauders, this House pledges itself to place the whole of the revenues of this Island at the disposal of the Government, for the purpose of organizing
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the militia and volunteers, and for such other military purposes as may be deemed expedient for the protection and defence of the Colony.”
If, then, it was considered necessary by the Commander-in-chief, acting under the advice of the Major General of the forces in the Lower Provinces, to have the sheds built, it was perfectly within the meaning of that resolution. He did not, however, wish to justify the Government upon this clause only, but would prove the legality of their conduct by reference to the sixty-third clause in the Militia Act of last session, for which the hon. Attorney General voted. That clause expressly provided that the Commander-in-Chief could cause “drill sheds” to be erected at Charlottetown, Georgetown, and Summerside; and the Government was therefore perfectly justified in having them built, if necessary. The amount expended on these was a mere bagatelle; they only cost £2819 5s. 5d. In some of the county towns of Nova Scotia, there were better and more expensive drill sheds than that in our capital. In Montreal, too, the civic authorities had lately voted $80,000 for the erection of such buildings. There had not been one dissenting voice to the passage of the clause in the Bill of last session, and he therefore considered that no censure should be thrown upon the Government for acting as they had done.
Hon. Mr. DAVIES, although a member of the Government, was not fully acquainted with the object of organizing the militia and volunteer forces. He would ask the hon. Leader of the Opposition whether they were liable to be sent abroad.
Hon. LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION replied that the hon. member had better apply to the hon. Attorney General for legal advice. It was absolutely necessary that the militia and volunteers should be organized in this Island.
Hon. Mr. DAVIES was of opinion that it was little use to expend so much money in giving these forces a military training, if they were to be of no real service. He would like to see Her Majesty, or the local Government, have the power of sending them to Canada in case of a disturbance on the frontier, that they might thereby be of some service, and that their training might not go for nothing. He was sure that there would be no unwillingness on the part of the volunteers to perform such duty. He himself would not, though no longer a young man, have any objections to serving in that way. He had many years ago been ordered to Belfast on a somewhat similar mission. But the question which he had risen to ask was whether to the Bill organizing those forces, any condition had been attached making them liable to be called into any of the other Provinces. If they were liable to be so summoned, it would prove to the Home Government that we were sincere in the military movement, whereas if the only use to which they were to be put was parading the streets of Charlottetown; and if the military had to be brought from Halifax when any real service was required, a very large sum of money was, he considered, being spent to no purpose.
Hon. LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION had heard many extraordinary speeches since he had first sat in the House of Assembly, and he had thought that the speech or recantation of the hon. member for Belfast delivered a few days before, was one of the most extraordinary. He must, however, say that at no time, either under the old regime, or since the privileges of Responsible Government had been granted to the Colony, was a member of the Government ever known to ask one of the Opposition the object of a Government grant of money. The Chairman might well smile. We had an unparalleled Government in the Island at present. It was composed of most extraordinary materials. They had one view of a subject in Council and another on the floor of the House. How could the business of the country be carried on by a Government one of whose members put such a question to a member of the Opposition as that which had just been put by the hon. member for Belfast? If that gentleman believed that the volunteer organization of the Colony was useless, he must have believed that the Government were throwing away the money of the country in making the grant, and as an honest man he was bound to come out from among them and let them carry on their vicious acts without his countenance or support. He (Mr. Haviland) had never seen a member of a Government in such a position. When the question of this grant had come before the Council it was his duty to have asked the Attorney General what was the extent of the power which could be exercised over the volunteers and militia,—whether they could be called away for service in any other Colony or not. As, however, he had preferred coming to the Opposition for information, he would tell him that under the Law as it at present stood, they could not be compelled to go for service one mile from the Colony. He (Mr. H.) had last Session advocated making our Militia liable to be be called out for service in Canada, but a number of hon. members, who held Anti-confederate views, had over-ruled him.
Hon. Mr. DUNCAN was not on old politician, but if ever he had heard a Confederate speech on the floor of the House, that of his hon. colleague was one. He was filled with military ardor from the recollection of his campaign long ago in Belfast, but in the late contest he had sought his election from the very persons whom he had formerly gone down to suppress. He (Mr. Davies) certainly held a very strange position in the House, the position of a member of the Government finding fault with the actions of that Government. Why had he not resigned? Hon. members had spoken of his (Mr. Duncan’s) not resigning when the late Government acted contrary to his opinions, but while a member of that body he had never said anything against their acts, while his hon. colleague now came forward and virtually invited the Opposition to go against the Government. Had ever such a thing been known.
Hon. Mr. HOWLAN did not intend to take part in the debate, but he would tell the hon. member for Belfast (Mr. Duncan) that he need give himself no uneasiness about members of the Government, as they were perfectly able to take care of themselves. The Resolution before the Committee had been sufficiently explained. A large amount had been expended last year, but as a great part of that had been spent in building Drill Sheds, not nearly so much would be required for the current year. The Government had also taken into consideration the fact that the Island would not be in the same position this year as last. Would any hon. member venture to say that the Revenue during 1867 would be equal to that during 1866? Under these circumstances, then, it behoved the Government to spend no more money than was really necessary, or than the country could afford. They did not wish to destroy the military organization of the Colony. There had not been one dissenting voice to the Resolution of last Session which had been referred to, and that fact showed that they were not open to any charge of disloyalty. The members of the Government considered that £2,500 was as much as in the present state of the country, any Government (even were the hon. gentleman, Mr. Duncan, a member of it) would be justified in granting for the purpose named in the Resolution. He (Mr. Howlan) did not know any reason why the hon. member for Belfast, in the Government, should be so severely condemned
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for asking the question which he had, nor was there any reason for the Government’s giving up the reins of power on that account. His hon. friend (Mr. Duncan) was very fond of alluding to his (Mr. Howlan’s) Colonelcy, but he would tell that hon. gentleman that when the battle came he would not find him far behind. That gentleman was also continually taunting his hon. colleague, but he further hoped that for the future he would adhere to parliamentary rule.
Hon. Mr. DUNCAN had kept within the Resolution before the hon. Committee, and was ready to be corrected when he departed from it. If his hon. colleague required the assistance of the hon. Attorney General and the gallant Colonel to defend him, he (Mr. Duncan) was not to be blamed for it. He had never charged that gentleman with disloyalty.
Hon. Mr. HOWLAN had made no such statement.
Hon. Mr. DUNCAN.—The hon. member for Tignish had no right to interrupt him while he held the floor, as he would have an opportunity to speak afterwards. That hon. member should himself adhere more strictly to parliamentary rule. He (Mr. Howlan) had asserted that the Island was not in a prosperous state financially, but the truth of this statement he (Mr. D.) was not willing to admit. He could not see that the country was not financially prosperous. The Treasury warrants were not now hawked round the Island and sold at a ruinous discount as they were at the time the Liberals held the reins of power nine years ago, when he recollected having bought warrants at twenty-five per cent discount, and paid them into the Treasury for duties at the face. Though he did not acknowledge the force of the hon. gentleman’s reasoning, he was, however, willing to support the grant proposed by the Government.
Hon. Mr. HOWLAN did not expect the revenue this year to equal that of last year, therefore he thought that £2,500 was quite as much as the Colony could afford for the Volunteer and Militia service.
Hon. Mr. HENDERSON was at loss to understand what principle ruled in this House. When he spoke to hon. members outside, they were all desirous to proceed rapidly with the public business; but when he observed a member of the Executive who ought to be informed on what was laid down in the Statutes of the Colony, rise here and ask a question respecting the Volunteers in such a form as to provoke useless discussion, he (Mr. H.) doubted very much whether the Government was really anxious to bring the Session to an early close. One would suppose that after the range which had been given that hon. member the other day, to go back to the years of his youth, and over the history of escheat, he might now be prepared to go into business. He (Mr. H.) thought that the conduct of the late Government last year with respect to voting the whole revenue for defence, and the hearty support the Opposition of that day gave them on the question, was really what the great Napoleon would have called “sublime.” But we are told that there is only a step between the sublime and the ridiculous, and of that, he thought, we had an example here this evening. He believed the hon. member for Belfast was an Anti-confederate as well as himself, and it was rather surprising that he should object to defensive measures, for to talk of our little Colony being independent was absurd; and unless we showed a disposition to contribute something to military purposes, we could not expect that the Mother Country would pay the same deference to our wishes respecting Confederation. This Island could not be fortified, nor own a navy, therefore it was necessary that we should have a well trained militia, that might take advantage of every stump in case of invasion. In proportion as our population was intelligent, would they be prepared to defend their country with their life’s blood. He would support the grant for military purposes, and felt assured that the people of the Colony, if they valued their institutions, as he believed they did, would comply with the moderate requirements of the Militia Act.
Hon. ATTORNEY GENERAL thought that hon. members opposite had taken up the remarks of his hon. colleague (Mr. Davies) rather too hastily. It was not to be supposed that he did not understand the nature of the Act relating to the Volunteer organization though he asked the question which he did. He (Atty. Gen.) felt confident that his colleague would be just as ready to fight for our flag in case of danger as would the hon. members of the Opposition, however loudly they might talk. But as the custodians of the people’s money, and those who had to answer for every farthing which was appropriated, the Government had a right to say that the military arrangements of the Colony had been more expensive than they ought to have been. As regards Confederation he was not at all alarmed on the subject. We had just as good a right now to judge of what we were able to appropriate towards our Militia and Volunteers as we ever had. He would not hesitate to express the opinion that the sum which the Resolution before the Committee proposed to place at the disposal of His Excellency the Commander-in-Chief for military purposes was quite sufficient. The annual grant now had got far beyond what it ever was. Two years ago the sum voted was £1000, and here this year, when the Government proposed £2500, they were almost told that they were disloyal. There had been a great deal of travelling out of the record in this debate; and among other irrelevant matter, the hon. member for Belfast (Mr. Duncan) had stated that he had bought warrants at 25 per cent. discount when the Liberals were formerly in power; but he did not state—perhaps he did not know—that the rate of interest then was about 25 per cent.
Mr. BRECKEN maintained that it was improper that our Statutes should provide that the volunteers should not be called away from the Colony in case of an emergency. We had heard a great deal about loyalty, but he thought it was no great evidence of our desire to support the national flag, if our forces were prevented from being called to the frontier when an invasion was threatened or attempted. He was inclined to the opinion, however, that in the event if a war breaking out in which these Provinces were involved, we would be more likely to require assistance than afford it to others, consequently he believed that, though the clause in the Act, limiting the services of the volunteers to this Colony was repealed, yet they would never be summoned away from the Island. He was an anti-Confederate—that was, he did not think that fair terms had been offered to this Colony; still he considered it would be very selfish for us to retain all
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our small military force to ourselves. To hear of our young volunteers going to the Canadian frontier would afford him little or no satisfaction; but to say that they should not go was discreditable. Such action on the part of this House, instead of strengthening, weakened our anti-Confederate position. He thought if the people of the other Provinces knew that there was a clause in our Statutes, providing that our volunteers should not be called away from the Island, they would be disposed to ridicule us. The Government, therefore, ought to come forward and repeal the clause, that it might no longer be a discredit to the Colony.
Hon. Mr. HENDERSON thought he had probably been misunderstood. He had not entered into the question of Confederation, On that subject, as we had Responsible Government, the best course was to allow both sides of the question to be laid before the people, and let them decide. He had never denied that terms of union might be obtained that were just; but he would be an anti-Confederate until good terms were proposed. In connection with this question, however, he believed it would be for the interest of the Colony to keep up its volunteer organization, and not to say that the men should on no account be called to service abroad; at least, if they volunteered to go, the law should not prevent them. This, he believed, was the principle on which the volunteer organization was based in the neighboring Provinces.
Mr. BRECKEN had not alluded to the hon. member for Murray Harbor, but to the clause in the Act relating to volunteers, which prevented them from being called to service off the Island. He thought that part of the law was an injury to the anti-Confederate cause. He considered that the grant for military purposes was put down at a very low figure; but he agreed with the hon. member for Tignish, that the revenue this year would probably be a small one, and therefore perhaps the Government were wise in not naming a large sum in the resolution now before the Committee.
Hon. Mr. DUNCAN was decidedly in favor of keeping up the Militia and Volunteer organization, as the money was spent on the Island. They had heard the sum of £2500 named; but he thought the grant ought to have been for £3500.
Hon. Mr. HOWLAN said the estimate was for the amount required for this year’s service. Besides this grant, a sum would be required to meet the accounts for some articles ordered last year, such as suits of clothing; and when these were paid for, the outlay this year would be nearly £4000.
Hon. Mr. DUNCAN.—The sum for clothing came out of the Volunteers’ pay.
Hon. Mr. HOWLAN.—This was a specimen of the hon. member’s reasoning; though the late Government expended money, and this Government had to pay their bills, it made no difference as long as there was a credit of so much to the Government on the first of April.
Hon. Mr. LAIRD said that a great deal of the money expended last year under the vote placing the whole revenue at the disposal of the Government, in case of a threatened Fenian invasion, had been laid out in erecting drill sheds, and these sheds were built after the Fenian danger was over.
Hon. LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION.—There was a Statute authorizing them to be built.
Hon. Mr. LAIRD.—True, but this House held the purse strings; and though there was a Statute authorizing the erection of drill sheds, the Government should not have taken money for that purpose without an express vote of the Legislature. Some hon. members on this side of the House had advanced the idea that the volunteers should be allowed to do service abroad, and the suggestion seemed to be warmly taken up by the Opposition, though they themselves had introduced the clause into the Act, which they now wished to be repealed. He was glad to find that they were progressing in their views.
Hon. LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION said he supported striking out that clause last session.
Hon. Mr. LAIRD thought the hon. member ought to have made his influence felt. According to the present law our volunteers are not allowed to go across the Straits to aid our neighbors in case of an invasion. But this was a fair specimen of the acts of the Conservative Government. He (Mr. Laird) had great doubts as to the utility of drilling Militia in this Island every year. We saw that in the United States during the late war, men who came out of workshops and were drilled about six days, made good soldiers, and won battles; and might not our men do the same without the inconvenience of an annual drill of several days? But he believed that most of those who were now being drilled in this Colony, would go to their long home before their services would be required on the field of battle.
Mr. BRECKEN remarked that the Volunteer Bill, when first introduced by the hon. member for Georgetown (Mr. Haviland) did not contain the home service clause to which so frequent reference had been made in this debate. The clause was inserted in the Bill at the suggestion of the hon. Leader of the Opposition of that day, the hon. Leader of the present Government. This was one point which the hon. Leader of the Opposition yielded to the hon. gentleman now the Leader of the Government of which the hon. member for Bedeque was a member, and yet he said it was a fair specimen of the acts of the Conservative party.
Hon. Mr. LAIRD had heard the hon. Leader of the Opposition state the other day that it was the duty of an Opposition to oppose every measure introduced by the Government. He (Mr. Laird) supposed that the Leader of the Opposition of that day held the same doctrine, and was carrying it out when he suggested the clause in question. It was certainly weak on the part of the late Government to yield to the then Leader of the Opposition.
Mr. BRECKEN.—Would the hon. member say that he himself had not yielded in many things?
Hon. Mr. LAIRD.—The Government had no time even to improve or amend the Act on the Statute Book, from the mismanagement of the late Government in having delayed the Election so long.
Hon. Mr. DUNCAN.—Why could not the Legislature have been called earlier? He was of opinion, from the remarks of some hon. gentlemen, that the
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present Leader of the Government found it rather difficult to manage his supporters.
Mr. HOWAT remarked that, so far as he could recollect there was nothing in the Act to prevent a volunteer from going anywhere he chose. Supposing that an attempt were made to compel a volunteer to go to Canada for instance, he had the privilege of resigning the leaving the organization entirely; and thus a new Act would have to be passed, if it were considered desirable to make volunteers liable to serve in other countries.
Hon. LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION observed that volunteers could not resign when in active service, and even when not in service, they were unable to resign without giving certain notice.
Mr. HOWAT thought that if such coercive laws were enacted, the volunteers would not enrol themselves, but considered that they possessed patriotism enough to serve, of their own free will, in Canada and elsewhere, when necessary; and added that when men were pressed into service, very little could be expected from them. He did not see much danger threatening the Colony at present. Danger threatened last year, and the whole revenue was voted; but there was no necessity for keeping up a continual agitation. The resolution presented by the Government recommended what he considered a reasonable amount, when the state of the Colony was taken into consideration. He was sure the Government were willing to do everything in their power to protect the Island.
Hon. Mr. DUNCES had omitted to answer one remark of the hon. member for Bedeque (Mr. Laird). That gentleman had alluded to the American soldiers in the late war, and had told the hon. Committee that they were ready for the field in six days. Did he mean to assert that they had never drilled previously? If so he would beg to correct him. But allowing that, without knowing anything of military tactics, they had been prepared for the field in six days, the people of this Island, if previously drilled, could be equally ready in one day—five days sooner. The Americans, however ready they might have been to go into the field, did not display any great amount of valor at “Bull’s Run;” and it was a very long time before they could successfully compete with the South. He could tell the hon. member that he had seen companies of militia in different sections of the Northern States, that could go through their drill well. It was not the work of a day to make men fit for soldiers,—the truth of which statement the hon. and gallant Colonel from Tignish could probably vouch for. It must have taken him a considerable time to become acquainted with drill and military tactics. (Hear Hear.)
Mr. P. SINCLAIR thought that it was not right to compel the volunteers to do duty out of the Colony, as it was quite enough to expect them to serve at home. Large numbers of them were farmers and others, who would be much inconvenienced by being so drafted from the Island. If there was anything wrong in the law, it should have been amended by the late Government.
Mr. PROWSE said that there was one question which he would like to hear answered, and that was, to what purpose the grant of £2500 was to be applied?
Hon. ATTORNEY GENERAL replied that the resolution stated the object of the grant. He could not now go into the details of the matter. The grant was intended to carry out the present arrangements of the militia system, so far as that sum could do it.
The Resolution, as submitted, was then agreed to.
Hon. ATTORNEY GENERAL then moved a resolution granting the sum of £500—£200 for [Illegible], and £150 each for King’s and Prince Counties—for the relief of Paupers, which passed without comment.