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Date: 1867-05-14
By: Prince Edward Island (House of Assembly)
Citation: Prince Edward Island, House of Assembly, The Parliamentary Reporter; or, Debates and Proceedings of the House of Assembly of Prince Edward Island, For the Year 1867, 23rd Parl, 1st Sess, 1865 at 122-133.
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Militia Bill

The order of the day for the second reading of the Bill to add to and amend the Act for the regulation of the Militia and Volunteer forces being read—

Hon. ATTORNEY GENERAL on moving that the House should now go into the order of the day, said he did so on his own responsibility. It was thought necessary, for the efficiency of the Militia force, by the officer in charge of that department, that there should be some amendments in the present Act; and he had therefore undertaken to introduce this Bill, though he was of opinion that it contained two or three clauses which he could not support. Still he considered that some of its provisions were very necessary. If we had a Militia force at all, it was absolutely requisite that its officers should have authority to enforce discipline. All the clauses in this Bill were taken from the Act for a similar purpose in Nova Scotia. Some parties, he believed, thought that this Bill was very strict in regard to discipline; but it was not more so than was found necessary in the neighboring Province. The Bill, however, also contained exemptions as well as restrictions; it relieved all Volunteers from being jurymen, constables, and some other like duties. He believed also that the Fire Companies wished to be exempt from Militia duty. Several of the fines under the Act had also been reduced. He deemed it his duty to bring the Bill before the House, and had no doubt it would receive support, as on looking around him he saw so many hon. members present who were gallant officers in either the cavalry or infantry branch of the Militia service.

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Mr. BRECKEN said the hon. Attorney General had referred to the Fire Companies in Charlottetown asking to be exempted from attendance at drill. He (Mr. B.) thought as the men of these Companies had undertaken very important duties, and that voluntarily, they could fairly claim exemption from Militia duty. It was proposed that at least a certain proportion of the firemen in each Company should not be liable to be called out; and considering that these men had to turn out once a month to test their engines, and that they might be summoned to aid in extinguishing a fire any hour of the day or night, he hoped that their prayer for exemption from Militia duties would be granted.

Hon. LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION did not intend to oppose the Bill. The hon. Attorney General had taken the responsibility of it upon his own shoulders; but he (hon. leader Opp) thought that the hon. Colonial Secretary, as the eldest Militia officer in this House, ought to have undertaken to pilot the measure through its several stages. But all parties should lend their assistance to make the Bill as perfect as possible. As the Opposition of last session gave the Government of that day their aid in regard to Military matters, he deemed it to be his duty to give the present Government all the assistance in his power to render this measure satisfactory. As the millennium had not yet arrived, the best guarantee of peace which any country had was to be prepared for war. If any disturbance should occur between the Parent State and any foreign country, and we loved the Union Jack and those institutions which afforded us so much liberty and which cost so much blood, we ought to be prepared to aid her all that lay in our power. It was not only a despotic government that should be prepared for war; a free country was doubly bound to be ready for every emergency, seeing that she had so much to lose. This was especially the case with us, for we possessed a constitution and enjoyed privileges which were never equalled by those of any country, ancient or modern, on which the sun ever shone. He believed that we could bring into the field 10,000 or 15,000 effective men; all that they required to make them equal if not superior to those in the neighboring Provinces or even in the Mother Country, was a fair share of military training. It might be said that it was more profitable for men to engage in agricultural and mechanical pursuits; still it was the duty of the members of a civilized community to give up a part of their time to train themselves for the defence of their rights. Those who trusted to mercenary soldiers to defend their free institutions, were unworthy to possess such privileges. The Bill contemplated the improvement of our military organization, and though some members of the Government seemed indifferent about so important a measure, he was prepared to give the motion of the hon. Attorney General his hearty support.

Mr. HOWAT thought that a Bill of so stringent a nature as he had heard that before the House was, should have been published, in order that some idea might be formed by the people upon its merits.

Hon. Mr. HENDERSON believed that the object of this Bill was to render some clauses in the former one less stringent, and therefore more effective. There was nothing to fear from the Bill as objectionable clauses could be struck out. In urging upon the House the necessity for passing as perfect a Bill as possible, he remarked upon the uncertain aspect of affairs in the outside world at present, arguing that it was our duty to place ourselves in such a position as would enable us to defend our homes most effectually.

The Bill was then read a second time, and the Hon. Attorney General having moved that the House go into Committee thereon—

Mr. HOWAT, seconded by Hon. Mr. Laird, moved in amendment that the House go into committee on the Bill this day three months.

The question having been put on the amendment it was lost by a vote of 13 to 4—Yeas—Messrs. Howat, Laird, Reilly, McNeill.

House in committee on the Bill.—Mr. Bell in the chair.

On the clause exempting Volunteers from service on juries, and from performing statute labor being read—

Mr. HOWAT remarked that as the time which they were required to spend annually in drill was so short they did not deserve to be exempted from statute labor. He had heard no complaint on the part of the Volunteers.

Hon. LEADER OF THE GOVERNMENT remarked that if exempted from statute labor they would be deprived of the privilege of voting at elections. They should not be so exempted, and, indeed, deserved it no more than did the Militia. He thought that if a part only of the militia was called out at a time, it would be better than taking all at once, as at present. The summoning the militia was, in his opinion, a farce, since they could be as well prepared for war on ten days’ notice as if they drilled for that length of time every year. When men took a fancy for military matters it was different, but when they were called out against their will and herded together indiscriminately, they learned very little drill; in fact it was little short of tom-foolery. He then alluded to the manner in which one of the Volunteer Companies had lately thrown up its arms, and remarked that his faith in the movement was very much shaken by that occurrence. He would repeat that he considered neither volunteer nor militia men should be exempt from statue labor.

Hon. LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION thought that members of the Government were treating this Bill rather strangely. When the independent member from Tryon, the self-constituted third member for Charlottetown, moved that the House go into Committee on the Bill this day three months he was surprised to see his hon. colleague in the Government (Mr. Laird) second his motion—a motion to give a Government Bill the “three months’ hoist.”

Hon. Mr. LAIRD.—It was not a Government Bill.

Hon. LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION.—It should have been. Had ever any hon. member heard of such a measure as this being left an open question? Were the Government afraid to introduce it as a Government measure? The late administration had the manliness to come forward with their Bill and stand or fall by it; but in this case the hon. Attorney

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General trusted to getting the measure through by side votes. The Government should be ashamed of themselves for acting thus. He had, when the Bill was introduced, promised to give it his support, thinking it a Government measure. He had, however, been undeceived by the action of the hon. member for Bedeque, and the speech of the hon. Leader of the Government, and would, therefore, as Leader of the Opposition, wash his hands of it. He had an important amendment which he had intended moving, but would now trouble himself no more with it. He would allow the hon. Attorney General to do the best he could with this Government bastard Bill, for he could term it nothing else. If hon. members in the Government were not prepared to support their own measures, they should vacate their seats in the Council. We were unworthy of the privileges we enjoyed under the British Government if we were unwilling to spend a small portion of our revenue and our time in order that we might be trained to protect ourselves.

Hon. LEADER OF THE GOVERNMENT.—The Bill had not been brought in as a Government measure. It had been handed in so late that, in order that it might not be lost entirely, it had to be introduced without having been properly considered. Had it been a Government measure it would have been very different. The present Government, unlike the late one, did not shrink from responsibility. The late Government never had, during their eight years of office, a government measure that they were willing to stand or fall by. In the Militia Bill of last year they had the support of the minority. He felt that he was not bound to support the Bill in its entirely. He would still maintain that it was not necessary to call men out to drill for ten or twelve days during the summer when there was no actual need. He would be very sorry that any militia officer should have the power of sending a man to jail without a hearing, and keeping him there for five days. It was too arbitrary a power to give any man.

Hon. ATTY. GENERAL remarked that if the Bill advanced any new principle, or did away with any old one, the objections of the hon. Leader of the Opposition might have some weight. A militia bill was a trifling measure when compared with the question of Confederation, and yet the late Government did not make the latter a Government measure. He thought it the duty of every Colony to prepare itself for its own defence so far as in its power. As regarded the proper number of days for annual drill he was not prepared to express a positive opinion. The real subject before the committee was the exempting, and this should be the subject discussed. Other matters should have been introduced at the second reading of the Bill rather than in Committee.

Hon. Mr. LAIRD moved in amendment to the clause under consideration, that the Bill should be printed for public information, and allowed to lie over till next year. His view of the case was that such great preparation for war, as was advocated by some hon. members, was rather a step back towards barbarism than an advance in the right direction. He was somewhat amused to hear the hon. leader of the Opposition promising his assistance to perfect the Bill; when probably a few months afterwards he would be tearing the very amendments it contained to pieces. He (Mr. L.) thought that before the people were bound by such restrictions as this Bill proposed they should be made aware of what they were required to submit to. It was on this ground that he had moved the Bill should be published.

Hon. Mr. Davies thought if the Bill was to go into force as it stood, it would be difficult at times to find workmen to carry on the labors of the field or the workshop. People had not time in this country to do military service in the summer season. After all the training which had been gone through here last year, he questioned whether the companies called out were much more efficient than those of former years. Look at the Crimean War; the raw recruits brought into the field then very soon did duty as well as the old soldiers; and he believed the Garibaldians had accomplished more in less time than any trained troops that were ever called into action. He had no objections to see the Volunteer and Militia force kept up, but it could not be done to such an extent as the Bill contemplated. We might have two or three companies of Volunteers in Charlottetown, one in Georgetown, and one in Summerside; but the system could not be carried out all the country over.

Mr. BRECKEN sympathized with the hon. Attorney General in regard to the treatment which the Bill was received at the hands of his friends. The hon. Leader of the Government had used the word “tom-foolery” in connection with the Bill, and other members of the Administration had attempted to burke it altogether. All this, he supposed, resulted from the “composite” character of the Government—he thought it would crop out somewhere. He did not know who was the father of the Bill, but had heard that the Commander-in-chief had interested himself in the matter. He suspended it was intended to carry out his desires, if not those of the Government.

Hon. Mr. LAIRD would like to hear the hon. member’s authority for saying it was brought forward by the chief of the Government.

Mr. BRECKEN.—Well, of course it was not exactly brought forward by him; but there could be little doubt that he was anxious it should be passed. His Excellency had taken a great deal of interest in the Volunteer movement, and did not seem to receive many thanks for his pains. In regard to the recent trouble among the Volunteers, he would say that he hoped the officer referred to, who had perhaps taken a false step, would be reinstated in his former position. He (Mr. B.) maintained that the Leader of the Government should have introduced the Bill and stood or fallen by it. In Canada a few years ago, a Militia Bill was brought forward by the premier of that Province, and though it was not a new measure, his government was defeated thereon, and a change of ministry took place. But our “composite” Government would not endanger their position by a Militia Bill; they did not agree among themselves, yet they managed to stick together, and there was something in this from which he wished the Conservative party to take a lesson. (Laughter.) He believed, that the Bill before the Committee was introduced at the special request of the Lieut. Governor, and here in this debate the Leader of the Government called it “tom-foolery.”

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Hon. LEADER OF THE GOVERNMENT.—It was not the Bill to which he referred, but the calling out of the Militia.

Mr. BRECKEN.—Then let it be the Militia and not the Bill and what followed? Simply that the Bill was brought in to prop up this “tom-foolery.” Such dread of results was unworthy of the hon. Leader of the Government. Why did he not come forward in his strength as om former days, and take the Bill upon his shoulders and stand or fall by it. He (Mr. B.) really felt for the hon. Attorney General in the trying position in which he was placed, deserted as he was by his colleagues, but he must endure it, and stand by the measure which he had introduced.

Hon. Mr. LAIRD observed that the hon. member for Charlottetown seemed to take great delight in applying the term “composite” to the Government. He (Mr. L.) lately read in the newspapers of a new steamer which had arrived here that was constructed on the “composite” principle and classed for 14 years. If the Government of which he was a member stood for 14 years he believed he would be tired of it. The hon. Attorney General when he introduced the Bill had distinctly stated that he was not prepared to support all the clauses it contained. It was well known that the Act which it was intended to amend was introduced last session, and we should now give those same gentlemen who brought forward the measure at first an opportunity to rectify their defective legislation.

Mr. BRECKEN doubted whether the composite Government would hold together for fourteen years, as Mr. Laird had hinted. He thought that if they had some heads of departments to deal with, and the Leader of the Government were to treat a Bill as this one had been, the members of the Executive Council would soon be brought to book. Was it possible that a question of this nature could be so treated? That a Bill which took 2500 men from their customary employments a part of their time—that summoned every person from 16 to 40 years of age to attend drill—should be pronounced by the hon. Leader of the Government a piece of “tom-foolery?” Why then was it brought in? He did hope that the measure would turn out to be something better than the name it had received, and that it would obtain the support of the Government. Let them take hold of it now. He did not wish to see the days and scenes of the past revived. He did not desire to see what took place when poor Clark was brought to task. He did not ask for anything of the kind. It would be quite contrary to his wishes; but he thought the Government should take hold of the measure.

Dr. JENKINS believed the clause before the House related to the exemption of Volunteers from statute labor, and he was prepared to support it. When men were called out against their will, they never entered into the spirit of the drill. But if they went into it cheerfully, they would become better soldiers. He held in his hand a petition from the Firemen of Charlottetown, praying for like exemption.

Mr. HOWAT would give his support to the amendment. The hon. Attorney General seemed to complain that we would not exempt the Volunteers from burdens imposed upon other people. He was going to draw the Volunteers into the service with kindness. Then if one of these same Volunteers wished to be made a Constable, there was the fact of his being a Volunteer to exclude him from that appointment, or any other public duty which others had to bear? Some hon. members referred to him as the third member for Charlottetown; but certain men in the city seemed to claim more privileges than they were entitled to. He hoped to see the day when persons from the country would exercise more power in this House than they did now.

Hon. LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION asked if the hon. member meant Mr. Callbeck?

Mr. HOWAT meant the hon. Leader of the Opposition among the rest. He hoped, however, to see the time when men from the country would do their duty, and not allow means to be used to force Confederation upon the people.

Hon. LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION wished we were into Confederation.

Mr. HOWAT said we were not to be frightened, or bribed into it, which he believed was attempted to be done. Nor were we going to put military service upon the people until they were aware of it.

Mr. PROWSE remarked that no doubt the Home Government wished us to go into Confederation, and would like to see the whole military force of the Colonies put together. If we wished to avoid this, we would have to give due attention to our military defences. He did not see how we could treat this Bill lightly, in the face of the telegram which he had just taken from the Reporter’s desk.—“Earl Derby says the Government will not make public the real history of the recent Fenian uprising, on account of apprehended trouble with certain Foreign Governments which hare involved in the plot.” When hon. members considered this announcement, he did not think they would say that it was a matter of indifference whether we gave attention or not to military preparations. He believed that if trouble should arise, the Home Government would justly compel us to go into Confederation from a military necessity, if in these matters we did not do our duty. He would not give the Volunteers more privileges than the Militia. He understood that the Bill was similar to the Act in operation in Nova Scotia, and if they, who were going into Confederation, gave such attention to these duties, surely we who were not going into it, should be prepared to keep ourselves out of trouble. He would heartily support the Bill.

Hon. LEADER OF THE GOVERNMENT thought that if the Volunteers were to throw up their arms every time they took offence at something, there was not much dependence to be placed in them. He would like them to know more about the duty they owed to their superior officers. He did not hesitate to say again that in so far as the present manner of calling out of the Militia was concerned, it was nothing but a piece of “tomfoolery.” When called out and put through the drill, what was the result? A few might have learned to wheel a little better than the others, but the bulk of them paid very little attention to the drill, and were none the better qualified for the discharge of military duties; and he would still say that it was wrong to be calling out the Militia for ten or fifteen days, when the people could ill afford to

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lose the time. He considered it a serious matter to interrupt the agricultural, mercantile, and mechanical pursuits of the whole people for such a period, when it was well known that fifteen days’ drilling would never qualify them for soldier’s duty; but the volunteers could meet and drill as often as they pleased. If a foreign invasion was to take place, or was likely to happen it would be different, every man would then be in earnest, and would feel it to be a pleasure and a duty to do all in his power for the defence of the country. But at present there was no more necessity for anything of the kind, than there was for our getting alarmed at the telegram read by the hon. member for Murray Harbor. The terror of Fenianism must not frighten us into foolish acts. As to the Bill, he thought hon. members opposite were under a mistake, and had been fighting wish a phantom. The Bill brought down by the Government last year had been amended in committee, and surely members of the Government might submit an amendment to this one. It had been said that indifference on the part of the Government in this matter might be us. I as an argument for Confederation. The Government had not shown indifference on military matters. They intended to support the volunteers, and this they had made manifest in the appropriation for that service. Before the general election the late Government were going to do something for the volunteers, but these becoming offended, threatened their representative or the Government with their opposition. Again if the Commander-in-Chief did what they considered not fully right, they would not retain their arms. Men so acting lost respect for themselves. It was too much lite a Bull’s Run affair. He hoped, bye-and-by, that the Volunteers would do better than to throw down their arms one day and take them up another. As to the exemption from statute labor, it was but three shillings a year, and was not a matter worth an exemption. If the bulk of the people on a road in the winter were exempted, there would not be enough to turn out to break the roads, and travelling for a time might be entirely stopped. In the summer it would not be of so much importance.

Hon. Mr. DAVIES would say that he believed there was some excuse for the Volunteers throwing down their arms; he would not say they did right, but there was a reason for their conduct. He was given to understand that before this schism was kicked up, that they had been promised their clothes which were brought out from Englands. But when the election came on the Volunteers acted independently, and voted as they thought proper; and as they did not happen to vote for the Conservative candidate, their clothing was withheld from them.

Hon. LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION.—The statements of the hon. member for Belfast were not correct. Some clothing had been ordered from England for the Artillery Company, and there was some misunderstanding between the Commander-in-Chief and Captain Morris, on the part of the Company, as to how they were to be paid for. He had heard that the Commander-in-Chief understood that Captain Morris was to be responsible to the extent of forty shillings for each suit, while the latter understood differently. There was evidently a good deal of feeling manifested in the Company about the matter, and the Captain of the Company waited upon the Government for a solution of the difficulty. The hon. James Pope and Col. Smith came to him (hon. leader of the Opposition) and wished to get his assent to an arrangement. After considering the case, he thought it was a pity that such a fine orderly company should be without their clothing, and as the difference was so trifling, he said that under all the circumstances the Government should overlook the matter.

Hon. Mr. DAVIES.—That was what I stated.

Hon. LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION.—The hon. member said that when the clothing came, and the men voted against the Government the clothing was withheld.

Hon. Mr. DAVIES said that the Government conveyed the impression that the company would have their clothing given to them.

Hon. LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION.—The hon. member had said they showed their independence.

Hon. Mr. DAVIES.—And had they not done so in voting as they thought proper?

Hon. LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION had advised that the Artillery Company should have their clothing.

Hon. Mr. DAVIES.—Did not Captain Morris say that if the Company did not get their clothing they would vote against the Government.

Hon. LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION.—He did not know. He could only say that he gave that advice before a vote was polled. It all happened before the election, and how then could it be said that the clothing was withheld because they did not vote for the Government?

DR. JENKINS was aware that very few of the Artillery Company voted for him.

Hon. Mr. DAVIES.—Captain Morris had showed to him a correspondence, in which the Captain complained that the clothing had not been given to the men. Captain Morris was asked to pay the money down when receiving the clothes, which would have amounted to about £200; but his request was that the clothing should be left with him, and as it was taken from him and paid for, he would be responsible. He (Mr. D.) thought that the Government should have looked into it and done what was right. He had heard that some of these Volunteers had voted for himself. He hoped it would be no impeachment of their loyalty. To do so was, no doubt, a great offence in the eyes of the late Government. He did not justify them for what they had done in laying down their arms, but he did wish that the hon. member for Georgetown had as intelligent a body of men at his back as many of them were. He hoped, too, that their old officer who had been dismissed would soon be restored to his former position.

Mr. BRECKEN.—The hon. Leader of the Government had spoken disparagingly of the Volunteers.

Hon. LEADER OF THE GOVERNMENT had alluded to Volunteers in general, and had said that no confidence could be placed in them if they threw up their arms in time of need.

Mr. BRECKEN.—The hon. Leader of the Government had compared them to the “skeddadlers” at Bull’s Run.

Hon. LEADER OF THE GOVERNMENT would thus compare them still. It was the current report that a hint was given to the Leader of the then Government that if the clothing were withheld, the Company would vote against them.

Mr. BRECKEN denied the truth of that report,

Dr. JENKINS believed what his colleague had said. The members of that Company would, most of

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them, rather go naked, than vote for him (Dr. Jenkins.)

Hon. Mr. HENDERSON was surprised at the manner in which the hon. Leader of the Government was acting in relation to this Bill. There appeared to be some misunderstanding between him and His Excellency the Lieut. Governor. He was astonished that some hon. members should contend that raw recruits were as good as trained soldiers. They might with equal justice say, that the shop boy with one day’s acquaintance with his business was as good as the trained clerk. He did not understand how the Militia movement could be regarded as a Confederate “dodge.” Confederation was a new question, while Militia Acts were of old standing. Though he did not advocate carrying the matter of Militia training too far, still it was absurd to suppose that people could be prepared for action in the field with only a few days’ notice.

Hon. ATTY. GENERAL would assure the hon. member for Murray Harbor, that there was no misunderstanding with His Excellency in the matter of this Bill. All anxiety on that point might be dismissed.

The amendment that the words “and the performance of Statute labor,” be struck out of the clause, was then put and carried.

Dr. JENKINS in rising to move that the members of Fire Companies should be exempt from service as militia-men, remarked that no one who knew the manner in which the members of these Companies were obliged to do duty, would surely object to the motion he was about to make. They were obliged to keep their engine in repair and good working order, and were liable to be called out at any hour, and were subjected to great danger in extinguishing fires. He believed that certain very ardent members of the Militia force were opposed to such exemption, but he trusted that anything which they might say, would have little weight with hon. members. He believed that the firemen already performed more than their share. If this exemption would injure the efficiency of the Militia system it would be very different, but the number exempt would be so trifling, that it could injure it very slightly. He would, therefore, move that the following clause be inserted in the Bill;

“The members of the several Charlottetown and Summerside Fire Engine Companies, shall be exempt from attending muster, and from actual muster at any time except in case of war, invasion or insurrection, and that whenever such exemption is claimed the burden of proof shall always be upon the claimant, provided that the number so exempted, shall not exceed 80 for the Charlottetown Companies, and 20 for the Summerside Company, and that the senior members of the said Companies shall have the privilege of such exemption.”

Mr. BRECKEN would support his colleague’s resolution, for he believed that the firemen should be exempt. They were really volunteers for the defence of property in the city, and as such were liable to be called out at any time. They did not, however, ask to be exempt when the time came for action, but only to be so in times of ordinary muster. If they were compelled to turn out in such cases, they suffered a greater sacrifice of time and labor than any other persons in the community.

Mr. KICKHAM would also support the resolution; and indeed was of opinion that firemen should be exempt from service on every occasion, since if they were called out and were absent at the time when a fire occurred, no one would be able to protect property.

Hon. ATTORNEY GENERAL.—As so few would be exempted by the clause, he saw no objection to it. They could not be expected to perform their own drill as militia in addition.

Hon. LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION was opposed to the amendment when first mooted, because there was then no limit set to the number who were to be exempted, and the result would have been that every one would join Fire Brigades, and the militia law would be a nullity. Since a limit had been set he would support the clause. He would, however, wish to move as an amendment that the name of Georgetown be inserted with those of Summerside and Charlottetown, as a Fire Company might be organized there, and it was but right that they should also be exempt.

After some further remarks from hon. members, Mr. Owen considering that the Resolution would require further consideration, moved that progress be reported—carried.

The Bill to alter the Education Act was then read a third time and passed; as was also the Bill to alter and amend the Small Debt Act.

House adjourned.