Document Information

Date: 1867-12-13
By: Canada (Parliament)
Citation: Canada, House of Commons Debates, 1st Parl, 1st Sess, 1867 at 271-278.
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EXCISE

John Rose [Huntingdon] moved concurrence in the Excise resolutions, reported from the Committee of Ways and Means.

Luther Holton [Châteauguay] said it had been impossible for him to prepare himself for an intelligent discussion of the more important features of the resolutions, owing to the short time they had been in his hands. He was quite free to admit the propriety of extending to the whole Dominion the same system of customs and excise as at present existed in Ontario and Quebec, but as very little change was proposed by these resolutions in the old Canadian tariff, and as the tariff is to undergo further revision during the second part of the session, it would have been better merely to extend the old Canadian tariff to the Maritime Provinces. Under the circumstances, seeing they had not the usual opportunity of discussing this question in its different stages, he did not propose to raise a discussion upon several points that under other circumstances he would have done.

Alexander Galt [Sherbrooke] regretted that the Government had brought down the resolutions during this part of the session, and hoped they would not press their passage. He said this as their friend and supporter, and with no desire to embarrass them. He was sorry the returns relating to trade in all the Provinces had not been before the House previous to the consideration of the customs and excise. He felt sure that such a return would go far to remove that hostile feeling to these resolutions expressed by gentlemen from Nova Scotia. In the case of Nova Scotia, he believed they would show that increased taxation would have been imposed upon them by their own Legislature, if Confederation had not taken place nearly, if not quite as large, as that proposed by this measure. For the year ending Nov. 30, 1866, there was a deficiency, quoting from the year book, between the revenue and expenditure of Nova Scotia, amounting to $163,000. The Customs revenue during that year was larger than formerly, amounting to $1,211,000; but he would ask the honourable Minister of Customs if there had not been a falling off in the importations into Nova Scotia since that time?

Samuel Tilley [Saint John]—Yes, a considerable falling off.

Alexander Galt [Sherbrooke]—It was quite evident that while the expenditure in that Province had

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been increasing, the revenue had been decreasing. There appeared to be a balance due on the 1st day of July last to the Bank of Nova Scotia, of about $80,000; to Barings, $1,300,000; expended on Railway surveys since the first day of July, about $300,000; on the Annapolis Railway, $9,000,000. These figures show that the Legislature of Nova Scotia would have to provide for $2,580,000, involving interest to the amount of $154,800, so that the Province, if Confederation had not taken place, would have required increased taxation amounting to $137,000, and this is entirely irrespective of their proportion of the expenditure occasioned by the building of the Intercolonial Railway which would amount to about $200,000 additional. It should be remembered that the proposed excise duties involved no new change as regards Nova Scotia, except in the article of beer, and possibly to some limited extent in tobacco, there being no distilleries in that Province. Of course they would have to pay duty on importation of foreign spirits, or if they import spirits from Ontario and Quebec, they will have to pay duty of six cents a gallon, which was less than that proposed to be placed upon foreign spirits. So that whether the liquor came from France, the United States or from the distilleries in Canada, the amount will not be increased whether in shape of excise or customs duty. He thought that there were certain advantages to Nova Scotia connected with Union which had not fully been taken into account, and which might fairly be placed against what were declared to be disadvantages. It was unfortunate that during this part of the session they had to consider only burdens imposed, without having it in their power to consider the advantages of Union. Take intercolonial trade, for instance. It was certain that there were only a very limited number of manufactories in Nova Scotia. Manufactured goods could be imported into Nova Scotia from the other Provinces free of duty, and there would undoubtedly spring up a large intercolonial trade in this class of goods. In reference to another point, he would like to ask his honourable friend at the head of the Government if he was at liberty to answer whether Government intended imposing any charges upon vessels and lighthouses?

John A. Macdonald [Kingston] said he was not able at present to give his honourable friend an answer on this point.

Alexander Galt [Sherbrooke] regretted it, but in Canada no charges were imposed upon shipping, and they might fairly infer that the same policy would be continued throughout the Dominion. Then, he had no doubt Government would establish a line of steamers to ply between the West Indies and Halifax, thus making that city the entrepot of the West Indies trade. He believed, also, that Government intended to improve the coast harbours and lighthouses of that Province. Then, again, he gathered from the estimate of the Minister of Finance that it was the intention of Government to pay bounties to fishermen. It was only pressure of other work that had prevented Government from settling this part of the session all these questions in a satisfactory manner to the Maritime Provinces. With reference to New Brunswick, there were a number of articles upon which a higher rate of duty has been paid than that now proposed, and there were a number of articles both in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick bearing considerable rates of duty, now proposed to be free. That Province had incurred considerable expenditure in connection with railways which were not yet completed, and would now become a burden upon that people, if they had to deal with the subject alone. This was independent of the Intercolonial Railway, which would give far greater advantages to that Province than any of the others. In regard to Ontario and Quebec, no new taxation was required there, he would like to ask the Minister or Finance what amount he estimated to receive from excise and what from customs. He had stated in his estimates the amount from both sources $12,000,000.

John Rose [Huntingdon]—From excise $3,000,000, and $9,000,000 from customs.

Alexander Galt [Sherbrooke]—Did you base your estimate upon the existing law, or upon this proposed Act?

John Rose [Huntingdon] replied that he had based it upon the existing law.

Alexander Galt [Sherbrooke]—The customs for 1867 in Canada, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, were estimated to amount to $9,242,000, but unless the importations to Canada greatly fell off under the proposed tariff, there would be increased revenue which his honourable friend had not taken into account. The revenue from excise was estimated at $3,000,000, which will be derived mainly from Ontario and Quebec-there being no distilleries in the other Provinces. He had reason to believe that the amount from this source would be considerably more during the current year than last year, and the amount received since

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the first of July favoured that opinion. This would necessarily come wholly from Ontario and Quebec. Then, if they would look to the expenditure of Canada, prior to Confederation, they would find several items that would not occur another year:-The Paris exhibition, $50,000; Ottawa buildings, $200,000; secret service, $40,000; customs duties re-refunded, $270,000; and a few other items, amounting altogether to $611,000. Add to this a most certain increase in the excise duties of $600,000. Therefore, as regards Canada alone, the Finance Minister would not have found it necessary to recommend a measure of increased taxation, and if the Lower Provinces had to pay additional taxes, it was in consequence of their own financial position, independently of the financial condition of Canada. These facts should be explained and laid before the people of the Lower Provinces before this tariff Bill was brought down. He had very strong political objections to the imposition of additional taxes at this moment. He did not desire it for the purpose of embarrassing the Government, but as a friend and well wisher of the Union; he desired that no obstruction should be put in the way of the best possible working of the Union. Look at the feeling in Nova Scotia. The people of that Province felt that Confederation had been imposed upon them against their will, and it was fraught with serious disadvantages to them. That being the case, he thought it would be admitted that the policy of this Parliament should be to avoid every possible cause of irritation to that Province, and to adopt every mode of conciliating them and inducing them to believe that we had wished them into partnership with ourselves, not for the purpose of putting them in a worse position but a better, and to help to improve their condition in common with our own. We should do all in our power to show that we wish to deal with them fairly, and to treat them as well as (if not better than) ourselves. What was the position we were going to be placed in by passing this measure? They knew the feeling that existed in Nova Scotia. They had heard it expressed in this House. It had been charged against the Government that they were acting in the interest of the Western Provinces and to the detriment of those in the East. They had been charged with imposing additional taxation, and that that taxation was for the benefit of the West, and not for their benefit. What would be the effect of this measure at this moment, when gentlemen from Nova Scotia were going to leave to-morrow? They would carry away with them a record that would weaken the friends of Union in that Province, and encourage its opponents. It was a serious political mistake, bringing down at this time this measure of the equalization of taxation. The calling on the people of Ontario and Quebec to endure additional taxation for a few months longer was nothing compared with conciliating Nova Scotia. It was a most unwise step, he believed. The friends of Union-and he spoke as one of them-were so thoroughly imbued with the necessity of supporting the present Government that they would support them in this course; but he hoped his argument would prevail with them, and that they would even now pause in the course they had laid down. He believed he spoke the views of friends of the Union in this House when he said they would be glad to see the Government take a conciliatory course rather than persist in the one which would give their opponents-he would not call them enemies-cause to believe we were going to wrong them, give them an opportunity of going back to their constituents and saying that their worst predictions had been verified and would cause the friends of Union in that Province to hang their heads with shame. He knew the Government wished to make Confederation as successful as possible; and, as their supporter and well-wisher, he would entreat them to consider once more, before the step is irretrievable, whether it was not better in the interest of the whole people, to ask the people of Ontario and Quebec to continue to contribute additional taxes for a few months -yes, he would say years, even-more than the people of Nova Scotia, for the purpose of conciliating them and combining together more closely those Provinces under one Government. (Cheers).

John A. Macdonald [Kingston] said the only way to maintain the strength which his honourable friend had said they possessed, was by doing justice to all sections of the country. They would not be worthy of the support they had received from the people and Parliament if, in order to win over any portion of the Dominion, they did manifest injustice to other portions. The honourable gentleman had shown that they were not doing any injustice to the Lower Provinces, and yet he wanted to delay the, measure before the House-which everybody would admit would be great injustice to other Provinces. If taxation be just and fair as between old Canada and the Maritime Provinces, as he had admitted it to be, why ask the delay, and if they

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were to do so, would the people of the Maritime Provinces submit to be bribed-for it amounted to that-by the miserable advantage of the difference in the taxation between imposing these duties now and a few months hence, to accept a Union which before they had professed to detest? It was not by being generous to one section at the expense of another that they were to consolidate the Union, but by being just to all. Any other course would cause a sense of injustice to be felt. Every member who addressed his constituents against this Union stated they would have to submit to increased taxation. If there was increased taxation it was no more than they would have had if they had remained out of the Union. To change this tariff or postpone it for a few months, would not induce the representatives from Nova Scotia to alter their political course, or withdraw their projected appeal against this Union. If they were willing to abandon all their opposition, join heartily in working the constitution, and give it their support, then it would be well worthy of the people and Government of the Dominion to consider it.

Luther Holton [Châteauguay] came to Parliament a strong advocate for Union, and was not disposed to vote against the Government; but as this tariff now stood, he could not vote for it, in justice to his constituents. He had not lost faith in the Union, but he believed we should all derive benefit from it, and with a proper system of economy they need not have much more tax than formerly. He thought this tariff would bear very heavily upon the Maritime Provinces. He did not care how much duty they placed upon spirits, but he would go against any more duties being placed upon the necessaries of life. He had contended very strongly that there should be no duty placed upon flour in the Maritime Provinces, because Canada had more flour than was needed for home consumption. The amount of revenue to be derived from this source would be small. They only realized $1,411 on this article last year, when the duty was 50 cents per barrel.

Thomas Gibbs [Ontario South] said the principle adopted by the Hon. Minister of Justice was the only one he could possibly take. Fiat Justitia ruat codum, was his maxim, and it would commend itself to every member of the House. If the question is to be brought up constantly, let it be disposed of at once and dealt with fairly and justly. In preparing the tariff, they should consult the interests of the whole Dominion, for they were now united as one people for weal or woe, and their constitution did not exist only upon paper as had been announced on the floor of this House. The representative from the Eastern Provinces complained of the duties put upon breadstuffs. It was necessary at our last session to put a duty of 50 cents a barrel on flour, which was to some extent retaliatory upon the Americans, as it was not supposed the revenue would be derived from it. While this duty was placed upon flour, none had been imposed upon wheat. This gave Canadian millers the opportunity of grinding American wheat, and at the same time supplying consumers without imposing additional burdens. He had no direct personal interest in this matter, other than that common to his own constituents and the people of the Dominion generally. The only mills which ground American wheat were those on the direct line of the great water communications, as the mills on the Welland and Lachine Canals. The Canadians, in view of the abrogation of the Reciprocity Treaty turned their attention to direct provincial trade, and have nearly controlled it since. The policy of the Americans is by imposing a specific duty on wheat of 20 cents, and an ad valorem duty on flour of 20 per cent, materially to damage the milling interest of Ontario, and send our fine wheats out of the country to be ground. Let the trade be reciprocal, but don’t open our markets to their manufactures, while theirs are closed to ours. Their policy was restrictive, and we were asked to adopt that of free trade. Under existing regulations, he could not see its propriety. We were asked to pursue a policy which was a premium to refuse the renewal of a reciprocity treaty. The propriety of this he could not see. He said the exports of flour to the Provinces had increased from $193,735 in 1864 to $2,605,548 in 1867, and that while flour was admitted free from us into New Brunswick. This would show that the duty proposed was more nominal than otherwise. The policy proposed of a duty of 10 cents on corn and 5 cents on cornmeal per barrel, was a premium offered to grind corn in the States rather than in the Provinces. Meet the views of the Provinces by letting it in free, and increase the duties on whisky instead. He went on to speak of duties asked to be placed on coal, but said no duty, except a prohibitory one, would enable them to compete with coal brought in ballast from England. He hoped calm consideration would be given to the tariff, and trusted when revised in March it would be permanent.

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Thomas Killam [Yarmouth] said that a large proportion of the Nova Scotia people, compelled to purchase provisions from abroad, would now be called upon to submit to a taxation upon necessaries which had never been imposed on them before. He thought that they should at least have breadstuffs free, unless which was permitted Nova Scotia would not be satisfied, and would refuse to bear the oppressive burden of such novel imposition. It had been said that the Imperial Parliament would turn a cold shoulder to any appeal that they might make, but he trusted in the fairness of the English people, and could not believe that such would be their reception. He was surprised to hear gentlemen from Western Canada expressing a fear of the competition of American flour, and for his part believed that protection was a false and weak policy, and took his stand on the broad principles of absolutely unfettered trade.

James Beaty [Toronto East] said free trade was very well in theory, but they could not have it without coming to the principle of direct taxation. Free trade has been advocated from various causes, but it was generally the case when a fr3e trader became a manufacturer, he was a protectionist. When they had free trade with the United States the Maritime Provinces did not get the benefit of the excellent wheat of Canada, but it was mixed with the inferior wheat of the United States before being exported. Now we will have a direct trade with the Lower Provinces. There must be no division amongst us. Old things have passed away, and we are now standing upon a new constitution. There will be a direct trade between the Provinces. Then New Brunswick and Nova Scotia, instead of eating inferior bread, grown from inferior wheat, will get bread which has some nutriment in it, which will enable them to do more work than formerly. The revenue had to be raised to pay expenses; but we should see in the future that our expenditure did not exceed our earnings. He hoped they would never have class legislation; but they should all work shoulder to shoulder to make this country what it will be, one great Dominion, not to be exceeded in prosperity or wealth.

Charles Magill [Hamilton] took exception to the sugar duties as being likely to interrupt our trade with the West Indies and South America, with which it was now more than ever our duty to cultivate intercourse and reciprocity when the United States had, as it were, thrown a Chinese wall round their territories. Such protection, however excusable for interests affording extensive employment of labour, could not be defended where existing merely for the advantage of two Sugar Refineries of Montreal. Montreal appeared to be altogether unduly favoured. A Hamilton merchant had recently written to him that gum-an article used largely in the manufacture of tobacco-had been at that port subjected to a duty of fifteen per cent, which made it impossible for manufacturers there to compete advantageously with Montreal, where, upon subsequent enquiry, he had ascertained that gun was being entered duty free (hear, hear.) Upon his representation of the facts he received assurance that in future the same charges would be made everywhere. He desired to see the British scale of duties enacted here. In England the duties on fine qualities of sugar were higher, and on coarse qualities lower, than in Canada, where they had been arranged to serve the interests of the refining monopolies of Montreal, and to inflict injury on all Western Canada, and especially to the city which he represented (Hamilton), which was subjected to still further injustice in being compelled to pay a double canal toll on all its exports to America. Adverting to the expressions of Nova Scotian discontent, he agreed in the sentiment of a former President of the United States, that “Union must and shall be preserved”—upon the principle of equal justice to all. (Applause).

Thomas Coffin [Shelburne] protested against the duty on flour, meal and pork, and thought it would cause a great deal of dissatisfaction in Nova Scotia, which could not be overcome.

AFTER RECESS

Robert Harrison [Toronto West] said he thought, as a general principle, excise duties should be made as low as possible, so as not to cripple our domestic industry. The true policy of the Dominion was to encourage the means of employing our labour at home, so that we should be as little as possible dependent for our necessaries, or even luxuries, on foreign labour. We should not have reference merely to one of the great branches of national industry, agriculture, commerce, and manufactures, but should care for all of them as inseparable one from the other. Commerce stimulates manufactures, manufacturers stimulate agricultural production, and agriculture sustains both. Free trade was not a true principle, as applicable to all countries. England did not adopt free trade till its manufactures had the command of the world; and, to say that what was good for England

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in this respect was good for Canada, was to give the infant the treatment that was fit for the giant. The correct principle he thought was, that whenever we could protect our home manufactures, while raising revenue, we should do so. He agreed that whatever tariff policy we had should be uniform for the whole Dominion, and he hoped in future it would have the important element of stability.

James Young [Waterloo South] did not think this was a fitting occasion for entering upon the discussion of abstract principles of political economy. He thought under the circumstances in which they now found themselves, they should facilitate the passing of these customs and excise measures as rapidly through the House as possible. There were undoubtedly in the proposed tariff some objectionable features, at least from his point of view. The differential duties on tea were not fair to the Western part of the Dominion, because the people of the Maritime Provinces preferred using black tea, and that was no reason why they should pay only 3½ cents per pound of a specific duty; while in the West the people paid 7 cents on green. A good deal had been said about incidental protection. There were some articles put on the free list last year, machinery for example, which were as much deserving of protection as any interests that are now protected. This was not the time, however, for a full discussion of the tariff as the propositions brought down at the present time by Government were only provisional, to last for a few months till Parliament again assembled, when Government promised the tariff likely to be permanent.

Thomas Oliver [Oxford North] said that when the members from the Maritime Provinces complained that the tariff, as regarded them, was increased, they should remember that a great deal of the expenditure of public money for many years to come would be in those Provinces. We were to incur a debt of twenty millions of dollars for the Intercolonial Railway and most of that would be expended in New Brunswick and Nova Scotia, causing greatly increased consumption and filling those Provinces with settlers. The member for Cumberland (Dr. Tupper) had stated that the people of Nova Scotia had entered upon public undertakings which would have compelled them, had Confederation not taken place, to increase their tariff to 15 per cent. Every statement that honourable member had made bad been controverted by Nova Scotia members, except that, and he presumed therefore they could not contradict it. If there was any prospect of a decreased expenditure he would certainly advocate a reduction of duties, for he looked on free trade as the correct principle; but at present lie saw no such prospect. He disapproved of the tax on flour and the differential duty on tea in favour of the Lower Provinces. He hoped these points would be re-considered.

Samuel Tilley [Saint John], remarking that there was no subject so difficult to deal with as the imposition of duties, from the variety of interests to be considered, the burden upon which they had to-endeavour to equalize, said that, in introducing the resolutions last night, he had not spoken at much length, as the Government did not regard this tariff as final, but intended by and by to bring down another based upon a larger experience, which they might reasonably hope to last for four or five years. The Government had neither desire nor necessity for imposing additional taxation. The late Minister of Finance had put clearly before the House the position of the Maritime Provinces, which if not included in the Union would have to bear at this moment duties higher than the tariff would impose. He would address himself particularly to their representatives, as he himself represented a New Brunswick constituency, and it was from the New Brunswick minority and the Nova Scotian majority that expressions of dissatisfaction had principally come. He was sure that they would believe that the Cabinet had but one desire-that all the laws of the country should be just and equitable, and should bear equally upon all sections of the Dominion. By what he was about to say tonight, he desired to prevent the necessity of any member returning home with his head hanging down, and to give such a statement as might satisfy them all that the proposals were not invidious-however much they might perhaps disagree in trifling matters of detail, all of which the Government would well consider in recess, and if possible amend. None of them need be ashamed of the results of Confederation, by which at least no taxation had been imposed, (although it might perhaps be impolitic to say it,) upon New Brunswick, which she would not herself, if unincluded in the Union, have been compelled to impose more heavily. Considering some of the speeches which had been made there, it was of the utmost importance that the House should understand that no additional customs revenue was being raised, the aggregate under Confederation being only equal to the same aggregate before. To refer particularly to New Brunswick, the duty on

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brandy was being there reduced by the extent of their ad valorem charge of three per cent., amounting to $2,040; that on whisky the same, amounting to $2,800; that on rum by ten cents and three per cent., amounting to $15,380. There was some difficulty in comparing the wine duties, which had in New Brunswick been charged hitherto on a scale of comparative values, and would be hereafter measured by the proportion of alcohol, but from a careful examination he computed that they would pay upon this article alone $12,097 less than previously. Upon imported ale, they would gain $3,389. Upon articles not enumerated, they would save one-half per cent, or $15,802. Upon articles hitherto dutiable and now made free $44,504, and upon shipbuilding material and other sundries $15,500—a total gain of $110,000 in round numbers. On the other side of the account, they would lose by excise on malt-estimating their production of ale at 300,000 gals.—$10,000. Upon tobacco, which now pays five cents and three per cent, $24,000. Upon coal oil, $1,160. Upon molasses—taking an average of one million gallons now paying two cents and three per cent, and to be advanced to five cents—$25,000. Upon tea, which now paid four cents for black and eight cents for green with three per cent ad valorem on an average of twenty-seven cents per lb. $22,500. Upon sugars $27,750. Upon flour, for which, with regard to the large supplies they would receive from the West, his estimate of 50,000 barrels was very liberal, $12,500. Taking into account corn, and some few smaller items such as spices and perfumery, their total apparent loss would not exceed $130,000, or an apparent balance against confederative advantages of $20,000 in round numbers. But this calculation took no notice whatever of the articles to be obtained free from sister Provinces. Then the Dominion assumed $1,300,000 of their debt, which diminished their expenses $70,000 or $80,000, and threw the balance altogether on the other side. The debt of New Brunswick would, moreover, be swelled heavily by the proportion agreed to be contributed to the cost of the Intercolonial Railroad, if built solely by Canada. Under the subsidy they received, they would, without additional taxation, have as much as before for local purposes, and have their railway burden removed. As a matter of policy he should perhaps have kept silent, but he could not by such silence appear to admit that his Province was oppressed. The Government would give every consideration to the views of many representatives who might be dissatisfied with particular impositions, and so far as was consistent with public policy would endeavour to meet the suggestions of all. As to Nova Scotia, there also all taxation now to be imposed would have been inevitable, even independent of Union. There had been in 1866, the largest year for some time 1,365,251 lbs. of tea imported under a duty of six cents upon black and four on green. The increase of one cent would cost the Province $13,000. On tobacco, previously at five cents per lb. for leaf, and five cents excise for manufacture, this would pay an additional $25,000. On sugar $45,000. Of ad valorem articles they had imported in 1866, $4,928,245, adding the increase upon which to that upon coal oil and other sundries made, with the sums enumerated, a total of $273,145, of apparent loss, against which there would be a total saving of $210,081, comprising among its items $47,- 200 upon brandy, and $63,000 for additions to free list. The interest of their debt assumed by the Dominion would more than wipe off the unfavourable balance altogether, to say nothing of the advantages of the Intercolonial trade viewed comprehensively. He believed that in the next three years, if the tariff remains without modification, New Brunswick and Nova Scotia would not give the Dominion much more-any more-than they received. In Excise the West paid more, and in Customs the East, but altogether the arrangement was fair, and just, and equitable. As he had said before there were many difficulties in making the proper estimates, and before undertaking a final adjustment the Government desired the observation of a few more months as to how the Provinces were likely to be affected by their measure, and hoped at the end of that time to be able to bring down such a tariff as was likely to remain in force and to prove beneficial to the whole country. (Applause.)

Archibald McLelan [Colchester] thought it no recommendation to the resolutions that their operation was only to be temporary. When we next assembled, the whole country would again be disturbed by another discussion. The Minister of Customs had assumed, at the outset, that Nova Scotia was embarrassed. There might have been a temporary embarrassment, but with their revenue they would soon have overcome that; and even supposing they were embarrassed, was this a proper place to seek relief, when Canada had always had a deficit? He also referred at some length to figures as not bearing out the statements of the Minister of Customs.

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Charles Burpee [Sunbury] appealed to the Government as one who had supported Confederation, not to impose additional burdens on the people of New Brunswick. He believed the tariff would have a bad effect in creating hostility to Confederation; and, although he had confidence in Ministers, he was sorry they had consented to introduce a scheme which he feared would bear unjustly upon the people of the Dominion.

Timothy Anglin [Gloucester] spoke at great length in opposition to the tariff, contending that notwithstanding it made certain reductions, it would on the whole largely increase the revenue to be contributed by the Lower Provinces. He estimated that the extra duties which under it would be paid in New Brunswick would amount to $370,000, and the reduction to $70,000, thus leaving $300,000 as the net sum which would be paid by that Province over and above its revenue under the existing tariff.

Alfred Jones [Halifax] regretted that the Government had not had time to mature their plans, so that they would have been able to present a tariff which would be the tariff for the next five years, and recommended the postponement of the question until the adjourned session. He recommended reducing the tariff on some articles and putting a duty of 5 per cent upon some of the free articles.

Charles Connell [Carleton] protested against the increase of duty on the necessaries of life, and recommended the Government to allow the matter to stand over.

Joseph Howe [Hants] spoke briefly, charging the Government with sacrificing by their proposed tariff, the interests of Nova Scotia to Canadian interests.

Alexander Galt [Sherbrooke] followed and urged the expediency of postponing the passage of the resolutions till next part of the session; then a permanent tariff might be arranged.

Charles Fisher [York] spoke in opposition to the resolutions, and thought if the question was postponed a more equitable tariff could be arranged. He was strongly opposed to the duty upon bread and other necessaries of life.

Mr. McMillan, though a supporter of Union, felt it his duty to oppose the resolutions. He thought the distribution of taxation was not equitable to New Brunswick.

Alexander Mackenzie [Lambton] had listened with great pain to the remarks of gentlemen from the Lower Provinces. They seemed to be under the impression that Parliament had met together for the purpose of picking their pockets. He was not prepared at present to enter into a discussion of the subject to-night, but he could assure gentlemen from the Maritime Provinces that, if any items in the tariff would in his opinion bear oppressively and unjustly upon any section, he would use what power he had to oppose it. He was sorry to see a sectional spirit displayed to-night, and hoped that future questions of public importance would be discussed in a national spirit, and as far as possible free from sectional jealousies and bickerings.

Lachlin McCallum [Monck] expressed himself opposed to the export duties on lumber fixed in the resolutions, and said he would vote against the whole Bill, if they were not changed.

The Excise resolutions were then concurred in.