Document Information

Date: 1989-10-17
By: Canada (Parliament)
Citation: Canada, House of Commons Debates, 34th Parl, 2nd Sess, 1989 at 4757-4758, 4760.
Other formats: Click here to view the original document (PDF).

4757

SENATE REFORM

Hon. Lloyd Axworthy (Winnipeg South Centre): Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Deputy Prime Minister. Maybe the Deputy Prime Minister would recognize that last evening’s election of a Senate nominee in Alberta is a very important historical step for this country. As a simple straightforward parliamentarian he would not want to hide behind obscure answers about lists of names but recognize the election as being a clear question of the will of the people being responded to by this government.

Has the Deputy Prime Minister been in touch with the Prime Minister in his sojourn overseas and can hie now say that the Prime Minister will provide the assurance that the prerogative of the Prime Minister will be used clearly to appoint to the Senate the nominee who was elected last night in the province of Alberta for the Senate?

Hon. Don Mazankowski (Deputy Prime Minister, President of the Privy Council and Minister of Agriculture): Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is aware of the process that has been established under the Meech Lake Accord. There are constitutional responsibilities that the Prime Minister has to uphold. There are also conditions that he is obligated to uphold under the provisions of the Meech Lake Accord.

The Right Hon. Leader of the Opposition asks if Mr. Getty signed the accord. The answer is, yes. I have it right here in front of me. To enlighten the hon. member in case hie has not read the Meech Lake Accord, Article 2, which deals with Section 25 (1) of the Constitution, states: “Where a vacancy occurs in the Senate the government of the province to which the vacancy relates may, in relation to that vacancy, submit to the Queen’s Privy Council of Canada the names of persons who may be summoned to the Senate.”

Subsection 2 states: “Until an amendment to the Constitution of Canada is made in relation to the Senate pursuant to Section 41, of the Constitution Act, 1982, the person summoned to fill a vacancy in the Senate shall be chosen from among the persons whose names have been submitted under Subsection 1, by the government of the province to which the vacancy relates and must be acceptable to the Queen’s Privy Council of Canada.”

There is a clear constitutional obligation.

Mr. Lapierre: How about the people?

Mr. Turner (Vancouver Quadra): How about the people of Alberta?

Mr. Mazankowski: There is an obligation to uphold the spirit and the letter of the Meech Lake Accord which was signed by the Premier of the Province of Alberta, Mr. Getty. The Prime Minister is fully prepared to honour his obligations and his responsibilities within that context.

Mr. Axworthy (Winnipeg South Centre): Mr. Speaker, I would express my disappointment in the answer of the Deputy Prime Minister because when he talks about honouring obligations, there is a much higher obligation to respond to, and that is the will of the people expressed through the ballot box. That is the highest order in this House.

I want to ask the Deputy Prime Minister specifically this in relation to that important first step taken in the province of Alberta last night in terms of Senate reform. Going back to the Deputy Prime Minister’s own interest in Senate reform, will the government commit today that it will undertake a joint committee of this House, the Senate and House of Commons, to look at the mandate of the Senate and come forward with a mandate that is more equal, effective and elected than the Senate we have had up until now?

Is this government going to show its commitment to Senate reform as the people of Alberta did last night?

Mr. Mazankowski: Mr. Speaker, there clearly is a commitmnent. Part and parcel of the Meech Lake Accord was the fact that the first item on the agenda after the Meech Lake Accord was adopted—I trust that that is still the official position of the Liberal Party—

Some Hon. Members: Oh, oh!

Mr. Mazankowski:—was to accept the Meech Lake Accord. I know that there are some variations in some quarters—

Mr. Turner (Vancouver Quadra): Are you going to stand up against the people of Alberta?

4758

Mr. Mazankowski:—but I should also remind the hon. member that it is through the Meech Lake Accord that this process was established.

Mr. Turner (Vancouver Quadra): That is a newy.

Mr. Mazankowski: So, surely, Mr. Speaker, there should be some support over there. The fact of the matter is that there is no one more—

Mr. Axworthy (Winnipeg South Centre): Are you rejecting the people of Alberta?

Mr. Mazankowski: Mr. Speaker, if the hon. member would allow me to answer the question. There is no one more supportive of Senate reform than this government and ail members from this side of the House.

Some Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr. Mazankowski: When I hear Liberals across the way chirping about Senate reform, let us look at what Senator Hastings says about this process. He says that, “It is a ludicrous and unconstitutional.” Senator Olson says, “There is no Senate election. The Prime Minister appoints senators”. Mr. Speaker, why don’t they get their act together? We have ours.

Some Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

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[…]

4760

SENATE REFORM

Mr. John Harvard (Winnipeg St. James): Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Deputy Prime Minister. Today the government leader in the Senate said that in selecting Senators, a list of names must be submitted to the federal government by the province where a vacancy exists. He further stated that more than one name must be submitted in order to respect the provisions of the Meech Lake Accord.

Yesterday Albertans made their democratic choice in a Senate election. Today their premier, Mr. Getty, said that he would submit only one name that of the winning candidate in yesterday’s election. Will the Deputy Prime Minister defend the democratic will of the people? Will he respect the choice made by Albertans yesterday? Or is he going to snub them and insist on a list that contains more than one name?

Hon. Don Mazankowski (Deputy Prime Minister, President of the Privy Council and Minister of Agriculture): Mr. Speaker, I think all of us in this House support the principles of democracy. However, we also support the responsibility and the obligation to uphold the constitution and proposed constitutional amendments as was the—

Mr. Turner (Vancouver Quadra): This was not ratified!

Mr. Mazankowski: If the right hon. Leader of the Opposition wants to get in on the act again he can. He said that this has not been ratified. That is quite truc. What was agreed was that until such time as it was ratified, the spirit and the letter of the Meech Lake Accord would be fulfilled. The Prime Minister is prepared to do that and we expect the premiers to do likewise.

Mr. Harvard: Mr. Speaker, the Deputy Prime Minister is not going to accept the democratic choice made by Albertans yesterday.

If the Deputy Prime Minister is going to be so stubborn about a list, I will tell him that there was a total of six candidates in the Senate election yesterday. Would he be satisfied with that list? If so, why in heaven’s name would he not select the winning name from that list?

Mr. Mazankowski: Mr. Speaker, I am not being stubborn at all. What I am saying is that there is a constitutional obligation and responsibility. There is an agreement that is enshrined in the Meech Lake Accord which the Prime Minister and the premiers agreed to follow in spirit and in letter.

It is certainly not the hon. member’s responsibility to submit names or to appoint a Senator. It is the responsibility of the premier of the province of Alberta to submit a list of names. I can assure him that when he does it will be considered in appropriate fashion.

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