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Date: 1851-02-06
By: New Brunswick (Legislative Council)
Citation: New Brunswick, Legislative Council, Journal of the Legislative Council of the Province of New Brunswick, 15th Gen Ass, 1st Sess, 1851.
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85 JOURNAL OF THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

The Honorable Mr. Hazen presented to the House a Bill, intituled ” An Act to
incorporate within this Province the British North American Electric Association.”

The said Bill was read a first time.

ORDERED, That the said Bill be read a second time to-morrow.

The Honorable Mr. Hazen, a Member of Her Majesty’s Executive Council, by
direction of His Excellency the Lieutenant Governor, laid before the House the fol-
lowing Despatches and Extracts :—

ELECTIVE LEGISLATIVE COUNCILS.

Extracts from Despatch, No. 20, of Sir Edmund Head to Earl Grey, dated April 28, 1850.

MY LORD,–I have to request that your Lordship will lay at the Foot of the Throne the enclosed
Address from the House of Assembly of this Province, relating to an Elective Legislative Council.

The Address was voted in the House upon a division, but with a large majority in its favor, as
will be seen from the enclosure No. 2.

On the abstract expediency of the change, Her Majesty’s Government are the best judges. I
think myself that such an alteration in the Constitution of this Colony might work beneficially on
certain conditions.

I am of opinion that the only sound basis for an Elective Legislative Council would be a good and
effectual organization of Municipal Corporations throughout the Colony. Upon such Corporations
an Elective Council might be founded with great advantage in every way to the Province. Without
these I do not think that anything would be gained, although I know the difficulty of filling up a
Legislative Council on the present system.

Another question for Her Majesty’s Advisers would be whether such a Council should consist
entirely of Elective Members, or should contain a certain number of persons nominated by the Crown.
I do not myself consider this so important as the question what the qualification of the Elective Mem-
hers ought to be, and the time for which they were to be elected. * * *

It occurs to me, from what I have seen of this Colony, that any change of this magnitude should
be simultaneous in Canada, Nova Scotia, and New Brunswick.

The proximity of the Provinces is such that perpetual contrasts would be made between the
working of one system and the other in two adjoining Colonies. It is desirable, moreover. on every
account, that the Institutions of the North American Colonies should be modified on one and the same
system, since it is probable that their future relations with each other will be rather more than less
intimate.

I need not say that the change proposed is one of a grave constitutional character, and I ought to
state also that this is the last Session of the present House of Assembly. Any exposition therefore of
the views of Her Majesty’s Government which may be communicated in the course of the recess would
be discussed by a new House of Representatives, and such exposition would probably be more precise
in its character than inferences which the Legislature here can draw from the newspaper reports of
debates in Parliament.

The Right Honorable Earl Grey, &c. &c. &c.

(Copy)—No. 74. Government House, Fredericton, N. B.

MY LORD,–I have to acknowledge your Despatch of November 25, (No. 224,) on the subject of
an Elective Legislative Council in this Colony. I think the tenor of that Despatch will be very
satisfactory to the Assembly, more especially as it is obviously your Lordship’s wish to leave the
details of any measure as much as possible to the Colonial Legislature.

There is one point however on which I should be desirous of learning your Lordship’s views—a
point not indeed affecting the ultimate constitution of such a Council, but the manner of its introduction.

A question may arise whether the introduction of an Elective Council ought to be carried out in
such a manner as to displace altogether and at once the Members of that Body who have already sat
by Her Most Gracious Majesty’s Warrant, or whether the change should be made gradually.

14 VICTORIAE, A.D. 1851 87

In my own opinion it would be more consonant with the spirit of English Institutions so to effect
the change as least to interfere with the persons who have on their Seats, and thus hold a certain
position in the Colony by Her Majesty’s favor.

The legal number of the Council is twenty one, including the Bishop, who has never taken his Seat.
Even after Mr. Odell’s and Mr. Brown’s appointment there exist two vacancies, and several of the
Members are old mm. Under such circumstances, my own notion would be that the whole Body
might be increased to twenty four or twenty five, and that the places of the additional Members and
any places actually vacant should be filled by election immediately on the Act coming into force,
whilst succeeding vacancies should be filled as that Act might provide.

In the mean time the existing Members of the Body would retain their Seats for their lives, subject
as now to Her Majesty’s pleasure. Your Lordship will area that this is a point peculiar to a Colony
where one system has to be substituted for another, and it appears to me possible that difficulties may
arise hereafter between the Assembly and the existing Council, unless I am favored with your Lord-
ship’s views upon it.

I have, &c.

(Signed) EDMUND HEAD

Right Honorable Earl Grey, &c. &c. &c.

(Copy)–No. 238.

Downing Street, 6th February, 1851.

SIR,–In answer to your Despatch, No. 74, of the 28th Decemberm in which you enquire whether
the introduction of the principle of an Elective Legislative Council into New Brunswick should be
effected by displacing altogether and at once the Members of that Body, who hold their appointment
by Warrant from the Crown, or whether the change should be made gradually, I have to inform
you that I see no objection to the change being, as you propose, effected gradually. Indeed I should
regard it as a proper mark of respect for Gentlemen who have devoted much of their time to the
Public Service, that their removal from the Council should be avoided; and I should feel glad that the
proposed alterations in the Couotitution of New Brunswick should be effected in such a manner as
not to impair the general feeling of content and satisfaction which ought as for as possible, to accom-
pany so important a change, by subjecting the present Members of the Council to any fight, even in
appearance.

I am, &c.

(Signed) GREY.

Lieut. Governor Sir E. Head, Bt., &c. &c. &c.

Extracts from the Royal Commission to the Earl of Elgin, dated 1st October, 1847.

And We do by these presents grant, provide, and declare, that there shall be within Our said Pro-
vince of New Brunswick, two distinct and separate Councils, to be respectively called the Legislative
Council of Our said Province of New Brunswick, end the Executive Council of Our said Province of
New Brunswick; and We do further direct and declare Our pleasure to be, that all and every the
powers and authorities heretofore exercised by the Legislative Council of Our said Province of New
Brunswick, shall continue to be exercised by Our said Legislative Council hereby re-established; and
that all the powers and authorities heretofore vested in, or exercised by the Executive Council of Our
said Provinoe of New Brunswick, shall continue to be exercised by Our said Executive Council of
Our said Province, hereby re-established; and We do hereby appoint and declare that the said
Executive Council, and the said Legislative Council, respectively, all consist of such and so many
Membem so have been or shall hereafter be from time to time for that purpose nominated and appointed
by Us under Our Sign Manual or Signet, or as shall be provisionally appointed by you, the said Earl
of Elgin and Kincardine, until Our pleasure therein shall be known. Provided nevertheless, and We
do hereby declare Our pleasure to be, that the total number of Members for the time being, of Our
said Executive Council, resident within Our said Province, shall not at any time, by any such pro-
visional appointments, be raised to a greater number in the whole than nine; and that the total
number of the Members of Our said Legislative Council, resident within Our said Province, shall not
at any time, by an such provisional appointments, be raised to a greater number in the whole than
twenty one. And We do further direct and appoint that five Members of Our said Executive Council

88 JOURNAL OF THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

shall be a quorum for the dispatch of the business thereof, and that eight Members of Our said Legis-
lative Council shall be a quorum for the dispatch of the business thereof. And We do further direct
and appoint that the Members of the said respective Councils shall hold their respective places therein
during Our pleasure, and not otherwise, and that the senior Members respectively for the time being
of each of the said respective Councils shall preside at all deliberations thereof respectively, save only
where you, the said Earl of Elgin and Kincardine, shall be present and presiding at the deliberations
of the said Executive Council; the seniority of the Members of the said Councils respectively between
themselves being determined by such Rules and Regulations as are for that purpose provided by such
Instructions as are hereinafter mentioned.

Extract from the Royal Instructions, dated 25th August, 1848.

And further know you, that We reposing especial trust and confidence in the wisdom, prudence,
and ability of Our trusty and well beloved, The Right Reverend Father in God, the Bishop of
Fredericton, and William Black, George Shore, Joseph Cunard, John S. Saunders, A. E. Botsford,
Edward B. Chandler, John Robertson, Harris Hatch, William B. Kinnear, Thomas Wyer, Hugh
Johnston, William F.W. Owen, William Crane, George Minchin, Thomas H. Peters, and Charles
Simonds, Esquires, do by these Our Instructions reconstitute, and re-appoint the said Bishop of
Fredericton, and William Black, George Shore, Joseph Cunnard, John B. Saunders, A..E. Botsford,
Edward B. Chandler, John Robertson, Harris Hatch, William B. Kinnear, Thomas Wyer, Hugh
Johnston, William F.W. Owen, William Crane, George Minchin, Thomas H. Peters, and Charles
Simonds, to be during Our pleasure Legislative Councillors of Our said Province of New Brunswick;
and We do especially require and enjoin, that whenever you shall think fit, in the exercise of the
authority vested in you by Our said Commission, to appoint persons provisionally as aforesaid, to be
Members of Our said Executive and Legislative Councils, you do in every such case forthwith trans-
mit to Us, through one of Our Principal Secretaries of State, the names and the qualifications of the
several Members so provisionally appointed by you to be Members of Our said Councils, to the intent
that the said appointments may be either confirmed or disallowed as We shall see occasion.

Secondly—You are not to suspend any of the Members of either of Our said Councils without good
and sufficient cause, nor without the consent of the majority of the Members of Our said respective
Councils, signified in Council after due examination of the charge against such Councillor and his
answer thereunto, and in case of the suspension of any of them, you are to cause your reasons for so
doing, together with the charges and proofs against such Councillor, and his answer thereunto, to be
duly entered upon the Council Books, and forthwith to transmit copies thereof to Us through one of
Our Principal Secretaries of State; nevertheless if it should happen that you should have reasons for
suspending any Legislative or Executive Councillor not fit to be communicated to the said respective
Councils, you may, in that case, suspend such person without their consent, but you are thereupon
immediately to send to Us, through one of Our Principal Secretaries of State, an account of your
proceedings therein with your reasons at large for such suspension.

Third—And whereas effectual care ought to be taken to oblige the Members of Our said respective
Councils to a due attendance therein, in order to prevent the many inconveniences that may happen
for want of a quorum of the said respective Councils to transact business, as occasion may require,
it is Our will and pleasure, that if any of the Members of Our said respective Councils residing in
Our said Province shall hereafter wilfully absent themselves from the said Province, and continue
absent above the space of six months together, without leave from you first obtained under your
Hand and Seal, or shall remain absent for the space of one year without leave given them under Our
Royal Signature, his or their place or places in the said respective Councils shall immediately there-
upon become void and if any of the Members of Our said respective Councils residing in Our said
Province, shall wilfully absent themselves hereafter from the said respective Councils, when duly
summoned by you, without good and sufficient cause, and shall persist in such absence after being
thereof admonished by you, you are to suspend such Councillors to absenting themselves, till Our
further pleasure be known therein, giving immediate notice thereof to Us through one of Our Princi-
pal Secretaries of State; and We do hereby will and require you that this Our Royal Pleasure be
signified to the several Members of Our said respective Councils, and that it be entered in the respec-
tive Council Books as a Standing Rule.

14 VICTORIAE, A.D. 1851. 89

Fourth—You are to communicate to Our said Councils such and so many of these Our Instructions
wherein their advice and consent are mentioned to be requisite, and likewise all each others, from
time to time, as you ahall find convenient for Our service to be imparted to them.

Fifth—You are to permit the Members of Our said respective Councils to have and enjoy freedom
of debate and vote in all affairs of public concern which maybe debated in the respective
Councils.

The Honorable Mr. Hazen, also by command of His Excellency, laid before the
House—

State of the Central Bank in March 1851 : and

State of the Globe Assurance Company in December 1850.

The Honorable Mr. Davidson, by leave, presented the following Petitions:—

From Thomas O’Kane, praying aid for teaching a School :
From Jonathan Carmault, with a like prayer:
From Reverend James Hudson, praying Return Duty: and
From W. J. Fraser, with a like prayer.

ORDERED, That the same be received and lie on the Table.

The Honorable Mr. Connell, by leave, presented a Petition from Asa Upton, and
twenty others, praying for an Act of Incorporation for the Simonds Agricultural Society.

ORDERED, That the same be received and lie on the Table.

The Honorable Mr. Hazen, by leave, presented a Petition from John Crear, and
one hundred and sixteen others, praying for an alteration in Duties on all imported
Leather and Leather manufactures. .

ORDERED, That the same be received and lie on the Table.

Adjourned until To-morrow at 12 o’clock.

THURSDAY, 13th March, 1851.
PRESENT:

THE HON. Mr. Black, President

Mr. Shore,
Mr. Botsford,
Mr. Solicitor General,
Mr. Hill,
Mr. Davidson,
Mr. Odell,

Mr. Saunders,
Mr. Hatch,
Mr. Minchin,
Mr. Hazen,
Mr. Harrison,
Mr. Connell.

PRAYERS.

Pursuant to the Order of the Day, the following Bills were severally read a third
time, and passed:—

A Bill to continue and amend an Act for establishing and maintaining a Police Force
in the Parish of Portland, in the City and County of Saint John: and

A Bill to alter and amend the fifth Section of an Act, intituled “An Act to consoli-
date the Laws relating to Buoys and Beacons,” so far as related to the County of
Restigouce.