Province of Canada, Legislative Assembly, 8th Parl, 4th Sess (18 September 1865)

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Date: 1865-09-18
By: Province of Canada (Parliament), Morning Chronicle
Citation: “Provincial Parliament. Legislative Assembly. Monday, Sept. 18th” [Quebec] Morning Chronicle (19 September 1865).
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MONDAY, Sept. 18th.

The SPEAKER took the :Chair at one o’clock.


Hon. Mr. CARTIER moved that the fees on the bill respecting the European Assurance Company be remitted by this House. The hon. Gentleman, in making the motion, remarked that the bill had been withdrawn, and that it was therefore butt fair the motion now before the House should be adopted.

Hon. Mr. BROWN though it was absurd to ask that the fees should be remitted in favor of a wealthy corporation such as the European Assurance Company.

Mr. DUNKIN – As seconder of the motion, I would suggest that the Hon. President of the Council should move to defer consideration thereof until Wednesday. (Laughter.)

The motion was carried.

Hon. Mr. CAUCHON move to remit the fees on a bill respecting the Pilots—from last session.

Mr. SCOBLE—In the absence of the Hon. Finance Minister, I would venture to suggest that we ought to have some regard for the public revenue. (Laughter.)

Hon. Mr. HOLTON—Knowing that the Hon. Finance Minister would have non himself. (Renewed merriment)
The motion was carried.


Hon. Mr. BROWN laid on the table copies of correspondence between the Finance Minister and the financial agents of the Province in London, relative to certain debentures returned to the Grand Trunk Railway Company.

Hon. Mr. HOLTON moved that the said correspondence be printer for the use of members.—Carried.

Hon. Mr CAUCHON—This will involve a rather large expenditure, and I am astonished at the hon. member. (Cheers.)


Mr. CURRIER moved that the amendments made by the Legislative Council to the bill to incorporate the Ottawa City Passenger Railway be taken into consideration.

The motion was carried, and the hon. gentleman moved to make certain alterations in the said amendments.

Mr. POWELL did not see why any such alterations should be made. He believed that the course pursued by the hon. member for Ottawa (Mr. Currier) was most extraordinary. The amendments to the bill had been made in the Upper House, on motion of the Hon. Mr. Skead, on Tuesday last, and that hon. gentleman had taken the trouble of sending a copy of the bill, with the amendments in question, to himself (Mr. Powell) and to the hon. member for Ottawa (Mr. Currier).

Mr. CURRIER—I beg the hon. gentleman’s pardon.

Mr. POWELL said he had met a messenger on the lobby of the House on the day in question, bringing in a copy of the amendments to the hon. gentleman.

Mr. CURRIER—That was after they were concurred in,

Mr. POWELL said that if the hon. member had consulted with himself (Mr. Powell) or with the Hon. Mr. Skead, there need have been no misunderstanding about the matter at all. He (Mr. Powell) was one of the original promoters of this bill, and one of the first petitioners for such a measure. He had done everything in his power to promote the scheme, when he found—some short time ago—that some other parties had taken up the idea, and had put a notice in the papers respecting their intention to apply to the:Legislature for an act of incorporation. Now he had no desire to find fault with their course in so taking advantage of the idea ; but he believed that he (Mr. Powell) had as much influence with the City Council, and could do as much to further the idea as any other person. He was willing to co-operate with the hon. member for Ottawa, as was also the Hon, Mr. Skead, butt that hon. member (Mr. Currier) had not consulted him at all on the subject. As to the amendments now proposed to be made, he did not think they were in the interest of the public.—The hon. gentleman then went on to point out that three of the directors proposed by the hon. gentleman (Mr. Currier)—namely, […] McNaughton, Perley and Hogan—were Montrealers; and to state that although the hon gentleman was not aware of the changes which had been made in the bill in the Upper House, he had taken no notice of the matter until Saturday, when there were scarcely any hon. members present, and when he (Mr. Powell) was not in his seat.

Mr. CURRIER said he knew nothing about the amendments until after they had been concurred in by the Legislative Council.—The hon gentleman then went on to narrate the origin of the idea of a street railway in Ottawa, which dated as far back as the completion of a similar enterprise on Montreal. The opinion was very generally expressed that such an undertaking would pay in Ottawa ; and a number of Montreal gentlemen proposed to take two-thirds of the stock required to build that part of the road it was proposed by this bill to construct ; under these circumstances, he thought it but fair they should have three representatives.—The hon. gentleman then went on to narrate the action taken in the other branch of the Legislature, The greater portion of his remarks were inaudible ; but he was understood, in conclusion, to say that he would prefer to allow the bill to drop, than to accept it in the state in which it had been sent down by the other House.

Mr. POWELL suggested that it would be much better for the hon, gentleman to accept the bill as it stood, without the changes he proposed to make. He was sure the provisional directors would do everything in their power to further the enterprise at issue.

Mr. F. JONES (North Leeds) hoped the hon. member for Ottawa would accept the bill as it stood. He thought it strange that an effort should be made to have a number of Montrealers named directors, inasmuch as he believed there were gentlemen in Ottawa possessing quite sufficient intelligence and capital to manage the undertaking.

Mr. POUPORE thought the members for the locality should endeavor, if possible, to be united on local matters of this kind. He Hoped a concession would be made in favor of those who had petitioned for the enterprise and who were its original promoters ; and he therefore trusteed some regard would be had, by the hon., gentleman who had charge of the bill, to their wishes. For his part, he had no personal objection, whatever, to the very excellent and competent gentlemen belonging to Montreal, who the hon. member for Ottawa had named ; but he (Mr. Poupore) had endeavored to effect a compromise between both parties, and he hoped it would be accepted. He proposed to strike out the name of one of the Ottawa gentlemen, from the bill as it stood at first, and to put a Montrealer in its place: At the same time he believed the Ottawa people should have a majority in the direction. He was exceedingly sorry that anything should have occurred to impede the progress of the measure, and he hoped the compromise would be accepted.

After some remarks by […] RANKIN, J. DUFRESNE and HAULTAIN—

Some changes were made to the amendments of the Legislative Council, and the bill was then concurred in.


Hon. Mr. COCKBURN moved for the leave to introduce a bill to supplement an act passed this session relative to medical practitioners in Upper Canada.—The bill was […] a first, second and third time, and was then passed.


Hon. Mr. HOLTON said he thought it would not be out of place to move for a return of the many very important measures upon which hon. gentlemen opposite had promised to legislate. He would have a few very brief remarks to make on the subject.

Hon. Mr. BROWN (rising)—Well I have some business to do.

Hon. Mr. HOLTON said that the country paid the hon. gentleman to attend to the public business of the country. He had a sinecure office, and was bound to remain until three o’clock.

Hon. Mr. Brown rose from his seat, and bowing to the hon. member for Chateauguay, left the House amid much laughter.

Hon. Mr. HOLTON said he thought it was important the House should have a schedule of the important measures the Government had promised, and some idea of the time they intended to deal with them. We should have a list of these subjects in some authentic form. He supposed a regular motion would be no use ; but he would like to know from hon. gentlemen when they intended to deal with these matters. (Hear, hear.)

Mr. F. JONES (North Leeds)—Mr. Speaker, I beg to direct attention to the fact that there’s not a quorum present.

Mr. DUNKIN—Oh, there’s never a “count-out” on the last day of the session.

The SPEAKER—Its only when the Clerk is in the House that names can be taken. (Laughter.)

Hon. Mr. HOLTON wished to know whether it was the intention of the Government to convene Parliament at what was considered the usual annual period for the opening of the Legislature, when, no doubt, the long list of promised measures would be brought down and dealt with. (Hear, hear, and laughter.)

It was important to know by reason of the large amount of material business which had been, for one reason or other, thrown over until next session. It was to be hoped next session would be held at an early day, next year, and that these matters would be at once taken up, so that there would be no excuse for setting them aside or hurrying them through without proper consideration at the close of the session. This was a serious matter, and he trusted the Government would see the necessity of enlightening the House and the country upon it. (Hear, hear.)

Hon. Mr. McDOUGALL thought the hon. gentleman could hardly expect a categorical answer to his very categorical question, at this exceedingly late period of the session. Had he considered the information he now asked one of such very great importance, it would have been easy for him to have put his question at a more appropriate time. The only answer that could be given him was that Government would abide by their obligations and fulfil their duties to the House and the country—governed of course by the circumstances and exigencies which might arise. (Hear, hear)

It should of course be borne in mind, when hon. gentlemen talked of next session, that we were on the eve of moving to a new seat of Government, and that we had only just concluded a session, at an unusual period of the year, at which a large number of public and private measures had been disposed of.

Hon. Mr. HOLTON—What about the new constitution? (Hear, hear.)

Hon. Mr. McDOUGALL said that the period when Parliament was to meet would be decided upon at the proper time by the Government—due regard being had to the wants and interests of the people of the Province.

The matter then dropped.


Mr. M. C. CAMERON asked if it was the intention of the Government to build a new post-office, and if so, when and where?
[…] Mr. HOWLAND said that the matter had received the attention of the Government, and that reports and plans had been obtained both as regards repairing the present post-office and of erecting a new one. Nothing final, however, had been decided upon.


Mr. McGIVERIN asked whether it was the intention of the Government to cause an investigation to be made into the management of the business of Division Courts in Upper Canada, particularly with reference to ascertaining the responsibility of the sureties of the Bailiffs and Clerks of said Courts ; also, whether an investigation will be made as to the responsibility of sureties of all other public officers employed by Government>

Hon. Mr. McDOUGALL said he thought he might venture to say that the whole matter would engage the attention of the Government.


Mr. M. C. CAMERON said that as this was the last of the peregrinating parliaments, he thought he might venture to say a few words appropriate to the occasion. On his own behalf, and that of his fellow-members, he begged to return sincerer thanks for the uniform kindness and courtesy they had met with from their Lower Canadian friend in the City of Quebec. (Hear, hear.)

He trusted they would find the atmosphere of Ottawa not less conducive of good feeling and mutual understanding than that of Quebec had been ; and that it would lead them to long for a closer union than that which hon. gentlemen on the Treasury benches and their friends proposed. He hoped the latter measure would be abandoned as an expedient which could only be justified by the exigencies of the moment and the rather peculiar circumstances under which hon. gentlemen found themselves placed ; and that it would be replaced, ere many years had elapsed, by a thorough Union—not of Upper and Lower Canada alone—but of the whole of the British North American Provinces. (Hear, hear.)

In conclusion, while reiterating his thanks to his Lower Canadian friend for their kindness, he could not but express a regret that the last of the peregrinating Parliaments had been so fruitless in respect of useful measures.

Mr. SCOBLE concurred in all the hon. gentleman had said relative to the courtesy of their Lower Canadain friends, and most heartly endorsed it. At the same time he must say that, for his part, he looked upon the scheme of Confederation as most acceptable to the people of Canada, and he believed many useful measures had been passed this session. (Hear, hear.)
Hon. Mr. LANGEVIN, on behalf of the Lower Canadians, would say that they had been exceedingly happy to have their Upper Canadian friends in their midst. The idea of the people of this section of the Province always had been that it would be productive of a better mutual understanding and of a thorough kindliness of feeling to have the Upper Canadian representatives breathing the same air as themselves. (Hear, hear.)

The Lower Canadians had met with the most uniform kindness during their sojourn in Toronto—he (Mr. Langevin) having never regretted the two sessions he spent in that city—and if they had been able to reciprocate the courtesies which had been extended to them, it would be a source of heartfelt pleasure indeed. In Ottawa, which would soon be the seat of Government, we should have a mixed population, residing in a city close to the boundary-line of the two sections of the Province ; and he sincerely hoped that there—in sight of the shores of Upper and Lower Canada—the representatives of both section of the Province would feel that, whatever might be their differences of manners, customs or religion, they had important interests in common which it was their duty to promote in union, harmony and good feeling. (Cheers.)

There was no further business before the House ; and at 20 minutes past 3 p.m., the sitting closed by hon. members repairing to the Legislative Council Chamber to hear the closing speech.

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