Document Information

Date: 1865-09-12
By: Province of Canada (Parliament), Morning Chronicle
Citation: “Provincial Parliament. Legislative Assembly. Tuesday, Sept. 12th” [Quebec] Morning Chronicle (13 September 1865).
Other formats: Click here to view the original document (PDF).
Note: All endnotes come from our recent publication, Charles Dumais & Michael Scott (ed.), The Confederation Debates in the Province of Canada (CCF, 2022).

PROVINCIAL PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY.

TUESDAY, Sept. 12th.

The SPEAKER took the Chair at three o’clock.

After routine—

ST. HYACINTHE ELECTION.

The Committee on Privileges and Elections reported that after having carefully considered the third resolution of the St. Hyacinthe Election Committee, and the evidence accompanying the same, they are of opinion that if the matters therein alleged were proved they would amount to a violation of the Act 22 Vic. Cap. 26: and therefore recommend the same to the attention of law-officers of the Crown.

In reply to an hon. member—

Hon. J. A. MACDONALD was understood to say that he would prepared to make a motion for the adoption of the report at the evening sitting of the House.

RETURN.

Hon. Mr. McDOUGALL laid on the table a return of the sale of mining and agricultural lands in the district of Algoma.

MILITIA AND VOLUNTEER ACT.

Hon. J. A. MACDONALD moved for leave to introduce a bill to amend the Militia and Volunteer Act.—The hon. gentleman explained that the object of the bill was to make some alteration with regard to the working of the ballot, and to provide that the camps of instruction should be placed under the Mutiny Act.

(Hear, hear.)

RECEIVING REPORT OF COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.

On motion of Hon. Mr. GALT, the items of the Committee of Supply (supplementary estimates) were taken up.

On the Volunteer Militia appropriations—

In reply to a question by Hon. J. S. MACDONALD—

Hon. J. A. MACDONALD said that the Adjutant General would consider the condition of the volunteer cavalry service and decide at what strength that branch of the force should be maintained.

Mr. FORD JONES contended that a larger proportion of the Volunteers of the Province belonged to the small towns and Villages than to the large towns, and he therefore regretted to hear, the other night, that the Government would only encourage the latter. This he considered most unjust. The volunteers of the rural parts fit not receive fair treatment at the hands of the Government.

(Hear, hear.)

Respecting the Military Schools he believed that, however, much good they did, it was hardly commensurate with the expenditure upon them. It was known that many school-boys had gone to these schools of instruction, during their holidays, in order to obtain the amount paid to those receiving certificates. Our Militia should not be officered by mere striplings, but by men whom they know and in whom they had confidence.

(Hear, hear.)

Hon. J. A. MACDONALD said that the hon. gentleman was, he thought, mistaken in supposing that the great bulk of the volunteers of the Province were in the rural districts. It was not intended, as the hon. member supposed, to do anything to discourage or destroy the organization of volunteers in the small towns, villages, and the country localities. On the contrary, the Government would do everything in their power to encourage and maintain really efficient volunteers in this parts.

(Hear, hear.)

With respect to any increase in the volunteer force, the policy of the Government, however, was that such increase should take place in the cities and large towns.

(Hear, hear.)

In the course of some discussion on other items—

Col. BLANCHET said he desired to correct an error into which the hon. member for Montreal Centre (Mr. Rose) had fallen the other evening, in stating that there were only fifty volunteers in Military District No. 3. This was not the case. There were five efficient companies in this district, and the Brigade-Major had, in addition, charge of another district adjoining. The officer in question was Major Duchesnay, a gentleman who had served in the regular army, and than whom a more effect officer could not be found. He might add that these districts had sent several excellent companies for active service on the frontier last winter, and again last spring.

(Hear, hear.)

On the item for drill-pay of volunteers—14,000 men at $8 each—

Hon. Mr. ROSE suggested—in reference to the difficulty to which he had alluded the other day—that, by way of meeting it, a general order should be issued to the effect that the volunteers should have the benefit of the regular drill they had performed since the 1st January of the present year.

Hon. J. A. MACDONALD said that it was only a matter of adjustment. Of course it would be extremely unfair to allow the volunteers to lose their drill, because a change had been made in the financial year.

(Hear, hear.)

On the item for volunteer clothing—

Hon. Mr. ROSE said that here might be some reform in the clothing in the direction of cheapness. The complete suit at present cost twelve dollars, while the clothing go Military School cadets cost, he believed, only nineteen shillings.

Hon. J. A. MACDONALD said that the Adjutant General would consider the matter, with a view of combining cheapness and solider-like smartness.

After some further conversation, the whole of the volunteer and militia items were concurred in.
On the question of concurrence in the item “Post-office, ordinary expenditure for the year—Grand Trunk, Great Western and Northern Railways for the year, $198,000—”

Hon. Mr. HOLTON said that the other night, while the House was in Committee of Supply, the President of the Council stated that when this Postal Service item came up for concurrence he would be prepared to explain the action of the Government in this matter in a satisfactory manner. He would like to hear him on the subject.

Hon. Mr. BROWN—If the hon. gentleman has nothing to complain of as regards this item, I have nothing. He charged the Government with fraud and deception in this matter, and with being guilty of the most improper transactions ever imputable to a Government. Now, if he has nothing to say a proof, or against the item, I am content with it.

(Hear, hear.)

Hon. Mr. HOLTON—That was not exactly the attitude the hon. gentleman occupied the other night. He promised to give explanations.

Hon. Mr. BROWN—No explanation is required. The matter is as clear as possible.

Hon. Mr. HOLTON said the House had, as yet, been favored with no explanations.

Hon. Mr. BROWN—You had better show what is wrong.

(Hear, and a laugh.)

Hon. Mr. HOLTON—You said you would be prepared to show it all right. Now is your time. (Hear, hear.) However, there were a few points to which he would call the attention of the House. The first was the act of the Government in passing an Order in Council increasing the compensation to the Grand Trunk for carrying the mails, retrospectively, from 1858 to 1865. In 1858, when Hon. Sidney Smith was Postmaster-General, an Order in Council was passed, fixing the rate of compensation for the conveyance of the mails by the Grand Trunk Company at $70 a mile. That Order was passed with the concurrence of three leading members of the present Administration—Hon. Atty.-Gens. East and West, and the Hon. Finance Minister. That vote was deliberately fixed as ample compensation for the service rendered by the Company.

Hon. Mr. BROWN—It was not accepted, however.

Hon. Mr. HOLTON—Well, the order remained in force till 1863, when a change was made on the recommendation of the then Postmaster-General, Hon. Mr. Mowat. The present Postmaster-General, who, with the present President of the Council was a colleague of Hon. Mr. Mowat. In 1863, and who concurred in the settlement made by the later in August of that year, now recommended to his colleagues the adoption of a new rate of compensation for the future. But, not content to deal with the future. But, not content to deal with the future, he went back to the past—to 1858—and recommended a very large increase beyond the rate fixed by Mr. S. Smith, and considerably beyond that determined in 1863. The result was, there had been paid, in cash, under the retrospective operation of the Order in Council, of 1863, to the Grand Trunk Company, somewhere in the neighbourhood of $60,000 or $70,000 in excess of the amount accruing under the Order in Council in force when the railway service was performed, and an additional sum of $78,000 had been carried to the credit of the Grand Trunk, against the unauthorized advances made in former years to that Company. The balance of $178,000 was shown to have accrued under the new Order in Council increasing the rate retrospectively before June, 1862, till August, 1863; while the amount accruing during that period would be in the neighbourhood of $50,000; the whole increase under Hon. Mr. Mowat’s arrangement, from August, 1864, to August, 1865, would be another sum amounting to nearly $60,000, paid to the Company, or payable in cash, retrospectively, and the enormous sum of $178,000, as he said before, was carried to the credit of the G. T. Company as against former advances, making a total of about $240,000 paid, or credited to the Company under the retrospective operation of this Order in Council. (Hear, hear, and “oh,” “oh.”) What he complained of was that Ministers should have recognized nothing as settled in the action of their predecessors, as regards the postal payments; that they should go back and reconsider the decisions previously arrived at, and increase by a large amount the rate of payment then fixed, thus superseding the well-considered decision of mr. Mowat in 1863. The second point was the payment, by present Ministers, of the sum of from between $80,000 and $90,000, principal and interest, the balance of a loan specially secured upon the postal earnings of the Company. He would refer to the documents already made public, including an Order in Council. Well, he believed an advance was made to the Grand Trunk Company by the present Finance Minister, who then occupied the same position, while in London, and without the authority of Parliament or of his colleagues. On his return to Canada their sanction, however, was obtained to this advance. The short Order in Council which he would read established these facts.

[The hon. gentleman here read an Order in Council, dated August 3rd, 1860, referring to the advance of $50,500 stg. to the Company upon the security of the postal earnings and certain bonds. The Order went on to say,—That the Postmaster-General be directed to hold, for account of the Receiver-General, all the monies accruing to the Company for past or future postal service […] he be advised the loan be reimbursed.]

The next document to which he would call attention was the report of Mr. Auditor Langton, made to the Finance Minister, of 20th July, 1863, showing the mode in which this matter had been treated by the Finance Department, and that the amount of compensation then accruing under Mr. S. Smith’s Order in Council, for postal earnings till September 1863, were required to cover those advances. Mr. Langton then said that, up to the present, we had received $224,000 from the Post Office Department, leaving a balance due by the Company of $21,368, which with the interest accruing left a debt of $33,465 in June 1863. The point was this—that, with regard to this loan, specially secured upon the promise of the postal earnings of the Grand Trunk Ministers instead of applying the earnings of the railroad subsequently to the passage of the Arrangements’ Act, in 1852, to the extinction of the balance of this lion, had paid the amount in cash, thus leaving that loan to the extent, including principal and interest, of about $80,000 uncovered, and a large amount of unliquidated advances still outstanding against the Grand Trunk. The ground upon which this payment was made was an opinion by the two Attys.-General in Oct., 1864, after their last resumption of office, to this effect: That the postal earnings of the Company, subsequent to the passage of the Arrangement Act in June, 1862, were not applicable to the payment of any of these loans. Now let it be observed that those very gentleman, in August, 1860, concurred in the report of the then Minister of Finance specially hypothecating the postal earnings of the Grand Trunk for the repayment of unauthorized advances then made to that Company; and now, in October, 1864, we had their formal opinion that an Act passed in June, 1862, with their own votes and influence, had the effect of destroying this lien upon the postal earnings of the Company, in payment of an advance they, themselves, had sanctioned. There was this feature in the legal opinion already quoted: it did not appear that the special case was considered by them when they have it. They gave it in general terms; but he doubted whether, as lawyers they could say that the effect of the Arrangements’ Act of 1862 was to destroy this special hypothec upon the postal earnings of the Company created by them when they borrowed this money in 1860. It was in effect a payment to the Company in advance. What were the terms of this Act of 1862? The first clause provided that all moneys to be received by the Company form this Province or from Imperial Government for postal services, etc., should be appropriated solely to the payment of the present debts of the Company owed either in Canada or in England, to either the bondholders of the Company or the holders of mortgages in the manner afterwards mentioned. Mark this phrase—“all moneys to be received;” now clearly the moneys earned by the transmission of the mails were not receivable and could not be received until the extinction of this advance to the Company.

(Hear, hear.)

Now the 38th clause enacted that nothing in this act contained should be held to interfere with or affect the rights of the Province as they now exist in regard to the said railway company. He thought that, whatever might be the effect of this act, as respects those unsecured advances in which the Grand Trunk was still indebted—that, as to the special advance, specially secured on the postal earnings of the Company, it could not be held as applicable to it. Honorable gentleman opposite sanctioned this advance by the Order in Council of 1860. They knew precisely the position of the advance when this act was in its passage through the House, and yet they lent it their support at all its stages, without disclosing the effect it must have in destroying the security they had taken for the advance of public money made in that year, 1860.

(Hear, hear.)

The Post Office payments instead of being made upon the report of Postmaster general Mowat should have been made on the report of Hon. Mr. Galt, when formerly Finance Minister.—The hon. gentleman now proceeded to read a copy of the report of the Executive Council, dated 15th November, 1864, on a memorandum of the Hon. Finance Minister with reference to the application of the Grand Trunk—not the creditors—recommending that an advance of $180,000 be made the Company, on account of services and that a warrant issue. The warrant did issue, the Committee having concurred in the recommendation. Now, when he charged the Hon. President of the Council, the other evening, with having concurred in that recommendation, that hon. gentleman said he was on the Atlantic at the time and was not responsible; but the Finance Minister made his report of that transaction on the 27th October, when he was in Quebec.

Hon. Mr. BROWN (laughingly)—I did sanction it. (Hear, hear.)

Hon. Mr. HOLTON said that the hon. gentleman desired then to disavow the responsibility of the transaction, but had thought better since and acknowledged it.

(Laughter.)

That satisfied him (Mr. Holton) that the Order in Council was not sanctioned till after that gentleman left for England; so that being sanctioned in his absence, if the relations between him and his colleagues—not then thoroughly soldered, as it were—and not become hardened by time, had become severed, he might have been in a position to say he never sanction them.

(Oh, oh, and ironical cheer from Hon. Mr. Brown.)

Else what did that exclamation of the hon. gentleman (Mr. Brown), the other night, mean—namely, that he was on the Atlantic at the time?

(Hear, hear and laughter.)

The general result of these whole operations was that Ministers had paid to the Grand Trunk sixty thousand dollars in cash, which ought to have been refunded as against the special loan; making about $150,000 in cash wrongfully paid the Company, besides crediting it with $178,000 against those unauthorized loans.

Hon. Mr. GALT—I thought it was only $80,000.

(Laughter.)

Hon. Mr. HOLTON said that there were two items, one of them $60,000 paid in cash under the retrospective operation of the postal service increase.

Hon. Mr. GALT—It is not paid yet.

Hon. Mr. HOLTON—You propose to pay it.

(Hear, hear.)

You are demanding the means to do it.

Hon. Mr. BROWN—You do not understand what you are talking about.

(Laughter.)

Hon. HOLTON was quite certain he did, if the public documents placed in his hand were not deceptive. The first time in the Public Accounts, standing at the debit of the grand Trunk, was called a special account, amounting to $19,000, which, with six years’ interest, would reach $26,419. The second item at its debit was the sum paid for the Montreal bonds, $100,000. This, with six years’ interest, came to $136,000. The third item was the Grand Trunk special advance account of $119,000, made in 1861, belong an advance of $120,000, pay, able from the surplus earnings of the Company, whereof as instalment of one thousand dollars was paid, leaving the $119,000 just mentioned, which, with four years’ interest would reach $147,000. Then there was an over-payment of a loan without interest, amounting to $120,000; those four item making $541,000. Then there wa the loan secured in the Postal Subsidy, which , with interest, made $88,523—the aggregate of all being $619,000—from which, if we deducted the balance applicable under the Order in Council of $178,005, would leave $431,000 as still due from the Grand Trunk, on these unauthorized advances.

Hon. Mr. GALT—You have not considered the interest. You have calculated on only one side.

Hon. Mr. HOLTON—These were the balances sue, and if the further interest were added it would only make it worse for the hon. gentleman. The hon. gentleman went on to say that the aggregate of $441,000 due by the Grand Trunk to the Government might be reduced under certain circumstances by $88,000.

Hon. Mr. GALT—How much less would it have been if you had kept the dirty-two thousand pounds bonds?

(Hear, hear.)

Hon. Mr. HOLTON—Would not refer to that point now. He would await an attack respecting the bonds before thinking proper to reply. The Hon. Finance Minister would find it difficult enough to defend himself without attacking his (Mr. Holton’s) conduct in this matter. He contended it would have been more compatible with the fitness of things, and the usages of Parliament, if hon. gentlemen on the Treasury benches had explained fully and frankly their extraordinary conduct in regard to those transactions connected with the postal service. They had insisted on a statement of the matter from hon. Members on this side of the House, which he had felt it his duty, however, to lay before hon. members as clearly as possible.

(Hear, hear, and cheers.)

Hon. Mr. HOWLAND said that the question before the House was one that excited a great deal of interest in the country, and had been matter of dispute between the railways and the Government for some years past. He had shared in the interest felt in this question, and felt the responsibility connected wit it ever since his connection with his present office. He had felt it was very desirable in the interests of the country, and of this post-office service that the question should be settled; and on going to the Government he had acquiesced in the appointment of the Commission to take the whole matter into consideration. He had gel great interest in the course pursued. The Commission was composed of gentleman entitled to the confidence of the country and this House. It commenced its proceedings at about the same time as the opening of last session, sat during the whole of that period, and for two weeks after its close. They examined the question most thoroughly, and called on all the different railways to present their case, and went to great expense in obtaining information on all the circumstances connected with the subject; and he thought it was the fullest investigation ever had before any Commission upon this subject. Before they made their final report, Mr. Brydges of the G. T. Company, submitted a proposition for the settlement of the question as regards that matter; and it had been recommended to the Government, who took it into consideration. They came to the conclusion that it was not desirable to act on that recommendation in the absence of the final report. The Government desiring the Commission should lay down a basis for the valuation of the Company’s services, did not deem it proper to take Any action in settlement of the postal service rate till the final report was made. In that document the Commission laid down certain principles in the matter which he thought would be safe a guide for the future.

He (Mr. H.) sent a copy of the report to the Postmaster General of England, who congratulated the Government of Canada on its compilation, stating that the question was one of the most difficult they in England had had to deal with, and that they had been attempting for the last fifteen years to get the value of such services truly estimated but without success, adding that he believed we had attained that object in our case. The final recommendation of the Commission was based upon principles the Department had always contended for, and in accordance with those laid down by the Hon. Mr. Mowat; that was—that the value of the service should be determined by the space occupied in one fo the Company’s cars, and by the cost as compared with the performance of similar services done for the public. The Commissioners recommended, in the first place, specifically, a settlement with the G. T. Company, and in the final report they made the same recommendation as they made previously upon the basis furnished by Mr. Brydges, both as regards the past and future, that the Grand Trunk should be paid at the rate of $150 a mile for the past, and that that rate with an increase of $2000 a year per mile till the rate reached $160 a mile. The Commission made another recommendation, that the remuneration for the past should be based upon the same conditions and rates as recommended for the future. He did not conceive the two recommendations agreed, and therefore he did not feel justified in saying the Grand Trunk should receive the larger amount specified. In dealing with the question as to the past, the Commissioners took this view, that previous to 1858 there was a distinct agreement between the Government and the railway, that it should be paid at the rate of $110 a mile. In 1858 a Government order was issued reducing that rate to $[…] a mile. There was no notice of it given to the railway, nor was it called on to make any representation as to whether it was a fair remuneration. The Commission came to the conclusion that the powers granted to the Government were judicial, and that in the expertise of them in determining upon that order, they exercised their ex parte, and not judicially. This view was concurred in by the Hon. Mr. Mowat, and on that ground they set aside the Order in Council of 1858, and made the two before mentioned recommendations.

Hon. Mr. DORION—The recommendations in the preliminary report are final.

Hon. Mr. HOWLAND—The first preliminary; the report recommended $150 per mile for the past, taking value for the side service. The final report recommended the same thing; but at the same time recommended that the past should be settled on the same basis as the future.

Hon. Mr. DORION—In addition to recommending a basis for the settlement of the past, it set forth that the payment should be settled at the rate of $150 a mile; he found no data in the possession of the railway or the Government to enable us to determine what at that rate we would have to pay. He admitted with the Commissioners that the Order in Council of 1858 was ex parte. The railway was allowed $110 a mile, and then there was fixed the value for the special and bag service, the latter being estimated by Mr. Mowat at $16,000 a mile. That was the basis on which the settlement for the past was arrived at. The same rate was to be applied up to the period of the commencement of the new contract. Now, he thought the member for Chateauguay had not examined this question with his usual care, as he seems to have overlooked the special service; but it was to be observed that that gentleman had not dealt with that service at all. Mr. Mowat did not recommend anything in regard to the special or bag service. He (Mr. H.) found, on examination, that a much larger sum than $16,000 a mile would be entailed for postal service. Mr. Mowat allowed $60 a mile for one train, and $40 for a second.

Hon. Mr. HOLTON—When two trains were running.

Hon. Mr. HOWLAND—Yes. That was the estimate of 1862; but the service has been increasing all the time since. Hon. Mr. Mowat afterwards valued the bag service $7000 per year, which, with $16,000 for special service, would make $23,000 per annum; and that added to $110 for the ordinary mileage service, would be equivalent to $133 per mile. He (Mr. H.) gave them $126 a mile, allowing them $110 mileage, for the number of miles of road now in operation each year, and $16,000 for the special and bag service, which amounted to the total figure already given. The special service since that time amounted to a great deal more, as he was quite satisfied that the amount paid to them under that arrangement up to the commencement of the new contract was not an excess of the rate Mr. Mowat allowed.

Hon. Mr. DORION said that the service from 1858 to 1863 was not the service required by the Post Office Department since 1863.

Hon. Mr. HOWLAND said that as far as the mileage was concerned that was fixed in accordance with the extent of the road in operation. We did not give them $110 per mile for the past, upon the number of miles now in operation, but that amount for the portion of the road in operation each year. There could be nothing wrong in that.

Hon. Mr. DORION—Except that it was fixed, from 1858 to 1863, at $70.

Hon. Mr. HOWLAND—The rate we had allowed from 1858 to the commencement of the contract did not exceed what Mr. Mowat had decided the Company was entitled to.

Hon. Mr. HOLTON—Why did you change his arraignment at all?

Hon. Mr. HOWLAND—Hon. Mr. Mowat did not apply the whole arrangement—only dealing with some matters so that the whole question was really open.

Hon. Mr. HOLTON—Not as far as the ordinary service of the Company was concerned.

Hon. Mr. HOWLAND said if we add to Mr. Mowat’s estimate, the price he was paying for special trains and bag service, it would be found it would amount to a little more than the Government had agreed to pay the railway as to the future increased accommodation was required for the mail service. On many portions of the line the work to be done had increased to an extent that required increased accommodation for both he mails and servants of the Government, and in making the new contract he obtained such privileges as he thought would meet the wants of the country in the future. The Grand Trunk and Great Western were now constructing a new set of cars for our mail service, giving us sixteen feet of the car. Now among the advantages derived from the settlement was our getting increased accommodation in the cars, a continuity of service upon those portions of the line over which it was necessary we should have communication, a settlement of this question and a defined contract for the performance of the mail service in a way satisfactory to the Government and conducive to the interests of the country. He believed the settlement we have effected would redound to the interest of the country. In the United States the Government had come to no arrangement of this kind with the railways, nor had they in England, where the railway companies were paid whatever was demanded. He contended, in conclusion, that besides obtaining a settlement of this difficulty on a sound basis we had conceded to the Company what was only fair and jsut.

(Cheers.)

Mr. SHANLY said he would speak a few minutes on the subject, as he happened to know a little about the past history of the Grand Trunk. He did think his hon. friend had stated the early part of his case altogether fairly. The Minute in Council, passed in 1858, fixing $70 per mile as the remuneration to be allowed the Grand Trunk was never accepted by it; and during the four years subsequent to that award, the Postmaster General was assured that this rate was not going to be forced on the Company. The Government had been previously paying $110 a mile, and when they reduced it to $70 a mile we reasoned that, the difference between the two sums being so large, if the former were too large, there must be something very wrong indeed, in giving it so long; but that if the latter were too low $70 per mile would not be a fair rate for the Company; and we felt that if the settlement was an unfair one for the railroad, there would not be anything wrong in asking for arbitration in the matter; for, assuredly, the Government could not desire to obtain from the Company the performance of an amount of work, in the carrying of the mails, at less than it was worth. The Company over and over again urged the Government to refer the dispute to arbitration, that the rate fixed might be a fair one as regards the Company. The Hon. S. Smith’s decision, in 1858, was an arbitrary one, the Company having nothing to say in the matter, never having been consulted.

He (Mr. S.) found that Mr. Mowat fixed the rate at $60, per mile, for a single service over the whole line, and $10 per mile in case of a second service, making $100 in whole. Now the particular working of the G. T. Road gave, taking the whole year round, absolutely a service equal to a double service or mileage for the Post Office Department. He spoke of the service pure and simple, and he ventured to assert that no arbitrators could arrive at any less figure correctly than the sum fixed by Mr. Moffatt and others in 1861. Since that the Grand Trunk had increased its line from 860 to 1,000 miles, and, therefore, throws a larger amount of special service to be done than was necessary before. Formerly the railway got $34,000 a year for extra service which might have been increased to some extent since Mr. Mowat made his report, since the increased length of the railroad.

Hon. Mr. DORION—It could not be anything more per mile.

Hon. Mr. HOWLAND said that this service amounted to a little more than $20,000 per annum, and the special service to $18,000 a year, making both $33,000 a year.

Mr. SHANLY said that the rate per mile of every train run which would be paid to the G. T. under the contract of the Postmaster General would be a little excess of ten cents a mile. It was a very little difference, after all, as compared with Hon. Mr. Moffatt and Hon. Mr. Mowat’s awards; but there was a wide difference, indeed, as to the amount of space now secured to the P. O. Department in the cars. The Commissioners lately considering the matter of rates, recommended for the Grand Trunk only one-third of the freight car to the mails. They had now got from the Company more than one-half of the car, the Commissioners estimating the space at three and one-third tons. They based their estimates upon that figure; estimated in another way, the space now given them was sixteen feet in length instead of ten as formerly. This was more than he (Mr. S.) give when Manager of the G. T. R. For the mails, it being then only ten feet of the car. So there could be certainly nothing very wrong in the contract entered into by the present Hon. Postmaster-General; but, after all, Mr. Mowat’s report was but an arbitrary report, whereas that of Mr. Howland was based upon voluminous evidence, and the result of the painstaking labors of the Commissioners of last year. He did think it was a matter of congratulation that one of the causes of heart-burning and trouble had been put to rest by the settlement of which his hon. friend the Post-master-General was entitled to the credit.

(Cheers.)

Hon. Mr. DORION followed at considerable length, in support of Mr. Holton’s view of the postal subsidy transactions. As for the payment of $110 per mile—up to September, 1858, there was no Order in Council. The money continued to be paid, but nothing whatever was done until 1858, when the balance was struck and the order promulgated. The President of the Grand Trunk Railway, be it borne in mind, was at this time a member of the Executive Council, so was the Solicitor of the Grand Trunk, and, if he recollected rightly, several other members of the Council were railway directors. In 1862 complaints were made and an arbitration was called for. Mr. Mowat made a report which was everywhere admitted to be a most complete and admirable production. It was spoken of in the highest terms by the Globe.

(Hear, hear.)

Mr. Mowat asked for a great deal of additional service. The continual stoppage of the mail trains was complained of, and it was alleged that it took full a week to reply to a letter from Toronto. It was therefore most absurd to say that, when Mr. Mowat fixed $100 for a double service, it was for the same service that hon. gentleman had allowed $110 retrospectively.—The hon. gentleman went on at great length to argue that Mr. Mowat’s report and the Order in Council ought not to have been disturbed at all.

The item was concurred in, and it was agreed to take the further discussion at another stage.

CHARTERS TO COMPANIES.

On motion of Hon. Mr. McDOUGALL, the bill to amend the 7th sub-section of the 1st section of the 23rd chapter of the statues passed in the 27th and 28th years of Her Majesty’s reign, respecting the granting of chapters of incorporation to manufacturing, mining and other companies, was read a second time.

ST. ANDREW’S CHURCH, RAMSAY.

On motion of Hon. Mr. McDOUGALL, the bill to enable the trustee of the Congregation of St. Andrew’s Church in the Township of Ramsa, in connection with the Church of Scotland, to dispose of the Glebe thereto belonging and for other purposes, was read a second time.

It being six o’clock, the House adjourned until half-past seven.

After the recess—

The SPEAKER took the Chair at a quarter to eight o’clock.

The North-West Territory

 In answer to Luther Holton [Chateauguay]—

John A. Macdonald [Kingston, Attorney-General West and Minister of Militia] said that the Government were quite prepared to make their statement respecting were quite prepared to make their statement respecting the policy they intended to pursue, in reference to the North-west Territory, either to-night or any night which suited the convenience of the House. They, however, desired that this discussion should be first closed.

Some Hon. Members—Hear, hear.

COSTS OF ARBITRATORS.

On motion of Hon. J. S. MACDONALD, the House went into Committee on the bill to regulate the costs of arbitrators—Mr. T. C. WALLBRIDGE in the Chair.

The Committee reported the bill without amendment.

EXCISE FORFEITURES AND PENALTIES.

On motion of Hon. Mr. GALT, the House went into Committee of the Whole and considered the following resolution:—

That it is expedient to provide that all forfeitures and penalties under the Act relating to duties of Excise, after deducting the expenses of the prosecution, shall, unless it be otherwise expressly provided, belong to Her Majesty for the public uses of the Province,—but the net proceeds of such penalty or forfeitures, or any portion thereof, may be divided between and paid to the Collector of Inland Revenue or Superior Officer of Excise by whom the seizure was made or the information given on which the prosecution was founded, and any person having given information or otherwise aided in effecting the condemnation of the goods or thing seized, or the recovery of the penalty, in such proportions as the Governor in Council may in any case or class of cases direct and appoint; but this shall not be construed to limit or affect any power vested in the Governor in Council with regard tot he remission of penalties or forfeiture-by the said Act or any other law.

THE POSTAL SUBSIDY.

On Hon. Mr. GALT”S motion that the House go into Committee of Ways and Means—

Hon. Mr. DORION resumed the adjourned deb ate on the Postal Subsidy question, speaking at considerable length, and arguing that Mr. Mowat never allowed anything retrospectively to the Grand Trunk, and that the Government had no right to go back of the arrangement.

The discussion was continued—Hon. Mr. HOWLAND repeating his explanations on some matters of detail, and Hon. J. S. MACDONALD attacking the conduct of the Government, arguing that they had no right whatever to act as they had done in this matter.

Hon. Mr. BROWN was very much astonished when he heard the hon. member for Chateaugay declare at the opening of the session, that he had something to disclose which would astonish the country, and this in a matter relating to the finance. The Finance Minister could give no hint and on his, (Mr. B.) telling the Auditor that the member for Chateauguay was about to disclose something that would astound the country out of its wits, and asking that gentleman if there was any thing wrong in the finances, he said everything was regular and in good order and could be accounted for.

(Laughter.)

Well the member for Chateauguay said the trouble was concerning the Postal Subsidy to the Grand Trunk Railway—he said were guilty of fraud and deception, and had taken $80,000 from the public chest without sanction of Parliament to give to the Grand Trunk. He thought he would be able to explain that there was not a single act of the Government in the whole transaction that was not perfectly regular and correct, and if there was anybody to blame regarding the Grand Trunk Postal Service, it was that member himself, who had returned the bonds.

(Hear, hear and laughter.)

Now the report of the Postal Commission was before the members all session, and the member for Chateauguay had not dared yet to take it up and point out in it the record of an improper […] of the Government upon which he would take issue. But when members opposite wanted to escape from a charge they could not sustain they brought up that report to help their case. The member for Cornwall said that the arbitration in the matter was unconstitutional, and we had no right to order it.

Hon. J. S. MACDONALD said he only complained it was ex parte.

Hon. Mr. BROWN said that the hon. gentleman said that the proper way to settle the sum the Grand Trunk and other Companies should receive, was that the Government should assign a sum they thought sufficient, and that that should be binding on the Company; and that it was wrong for us to deviate from that, forgetting all the time that he had deviated from iy when in office himself, and that his Government took up carefully two arbitrations of this question, appointing for the work Hon. Messrs. Day, Day, Moffatt, Blake and Draper. He (the member for Cornwall) gave up his former ground on this subject and accepted the arbitration though contrary to the views of his party. He had stated the Government gave a large increased rate and had set aside the action of Hon. Messrs. Mowat and Smith. He (Mr. B.) could appeal to a large number of members if the member for Cornwall did not, when Prime Minister, call his party together and asked their consent to offering the Grand Trunk Railway $150 per mile?

Hon. J. S. MACDONALD—Never, never. I never called the party together; the offer came from them and not from me.

(Laughter.)

Hon. Mr. BROWN said it was new to him to find a party together and recommending a course as desirable for the leader to take.

(Laughter.)

Hon. Mr. McGEE—He did not call them together, they called him together.

(Roars of laughter.)

Hon. Mr. BROWN said that the member for Cornwall had consulted his party individually on the question. Well, the member for Hochelaga endeavoured to sustain the position of that hon. gentleman, and the member fort Chateauguay advocated that it was wrong to go behind what had been done by previous Governments. As to going behind Hon. Mr. Mowat what was the fact?—that that gentleman was a party to the whole business and to the matter being considered by a commission.—The hon. gentleman he gave an account of the efforts made to settle this postal question since 1853, when Mr. Malcolm Cameron aware distinctly that the bargain was made with the Company at $110 per mile, at which figure it remained until 1858, when Hon. Sidney Smith reduced it to $70. It would be remembered that when he fixed the rate at that low figure he did not put in the bag service nor special service, but merely the postal service. The Company did not agree to this, declaring it no settlement at all. With regard to the payments to the Grand Trunk, of which so much had been said by the hon. member for Chateauguay, he had improperly used the word “payments,” when no payments to the Company had been made at all. Tho’ the Grand Trunk had never agreed to, nor accepted it, the Post Office went on giving them credit in their books as it became du half-yearly. The practice was for the Post Office Department, while not giving the Company any money, to credit them with the half-year’s payments of the service as they became due; that credit went to the Inspector-General’s office. Then those advances would be standing to the debt of the G. T. R., and in a few years they would amount to several hundred thousand dollars. Well, when this check for the postal service came over to the Auditor-General, it was charged against that loan to the Company; no money was ever actually received by the Company, those sums being passed to the credit of the G. T., against the debt it owed the Province. True, as far the P. O. Was concerned they considered it a payment though no money passed out of the public chest for the purpose. He, on entering office, found that the G. T. Had protested against the whole thing, and that a large portion of their service had not been provided for at all, including the extra and the bag service; they had never agreed that what was offered by Hon. Messrs. S. Smith and Mowat was fair, and had not taken a penny of it. He found also there was a large portion of the claim for service in 1858 still unsettled. That being the case he determined to have an enquiry into the whole matter with instructions to report; it had been said he had power to enforce this and that decision, but he apprehended it would not be becoming in the Government to do an unfair and improper act because it had the power. What position would the Government of Canada have been in had it gone about among the creditors of the Company down to the last farthing in a matter of this kind.

(Hear, hear.)

The hon. gentleman went on to eulogize the character and attainments of the Commissioners selected and to praise their work. The enquiry had been made in order that the question should be settled forever, and in fairness to all parties. The question was whether this was an honest, a fair, and a right thing to do. If hon. gentleman opposite did not think so, let them at once take issue before the House.

(Hear, hear, and cheers.)

As to the Arrangements’ Act the hon. member for Cornwall was responsible for it, and it ill-became him to reproach any member having advised as to its passage.

Hon. Mr. HOLTON—The eighty thousand dollars are gone.

(Laughter.)

Hon. Mr. BROWN—Yes, with you giving up the debentures.

(Cheers and laughter.)

When the hon. member for Cornwall entered office, the Grand Trunk told him they wished to get out of their troubles, when he brought the Arrangements Act—one of the worst ever put through Parliament.

(Hear, hear.)

There were creditors of the Grand Trunk—not bondholders or shareholders, but persons owning floating debt to the amount of twelve and a-half millions of dollars. They said the Grand Trunk showed us that they were in extreme, and asked us to take a settlement. On condition this act should be carried out, they agreed to take six millions, if the Company would set aside, with the assent of Parliament, the whole postal earnings and those from service to the Ordnance Department for the payment of those creditors—that they would, on this condition, discharge it from its difficulties. At that time, the whole of those earnings did not amount to one and a half per cent, of the ten shillings in the pound the creditors had agreed to accept, and even giving the Company $150 per mile, and including the Odnance earnings, there would not be three shillings in the pound for the creditors. Well, the hon. member for Cornwall agreed to this compromise and brought in the bill which he (Mr. Brown) did not approve of. What position would we have been in then, if, after making or sanctioning this arrangement we had declared the debts of those creditors to be null and void, and insisted upon our claim taking precedence? We would have occupied a mean and discreditable position.

(Hear, hear.)

In this act it could not but have been the intention of the Government to give the creditors every shilling of these postal earnings, and were it not it should have been.

(Cheers.)—

The hon. gentleman now proceeded to reply to some of the arguments of the hon. member for Chateauguay (Mr. Holton) contending that the trouble between that hon. gentleman and Mr. Watkin in connexion with the surrender of the Grand Trunk debentures arose from the wound caused by the latter to the amour propre of the former, in using the phrase “wrongful detention,” in speaking of his holding the bonds in question, and read lengthy extracts from the published correspondence to support this view.

Hon. Mr. HOLTON—Was it wrongful detention?

(Laughter)

Hon. Mr. GALT—It must have been, for you gave up the bonds shortly afterwards.

(Cheers and laughter.)

Hon. Mr. BROWN said that the hon. gentleman did not even ask the advice of his colleagues, the law-officers of the Crown about it, but surrendered $210,000 in bonds from the public chest to Mr. Watkin, on his own individual authority. The hon. gentleman here read a letter from the hon. member for Chateauguay, when Finance Minister, to Mr. Watkin, previous to his surrendering the bonds, stating that he was most anxious to comply with the request of the latter, when the Hon. Mr. Mowat had told him that the postal earnings were not applicable to the payment of the advance made to the Grand Trunk.

Hon. Mr. HOLTON said that the $35,000 were advanced to the Grand Trunk on those bonds and on the security of the Postal Subsidy, and the $70,000 were advanced merely on the postal security and not on that of the bonds, and Mr. Watkin, in his letter, drew that distinction. That gentleman’s position, that the loan had been paid, in so far as it was secured by the bonds, was good.

Hon. Mr. BROWN said he was not defending Mr. Watkin’s position in the slightest degree. He held $42,500 in bonds, as security on the balance of the Government loan to the Company, amounting to $55,000, and if he were to receive the postal earnings after the Arrangement Act, he would have been able to extinguish the rest of his indebtedness. But as the Finance Minster found that Mr. Watkin would not take the requisite steps to secure the Government upon he rest of its claim, he refused to give up the rest of the bonds to the railway company and was quite right. Mr. Watkin contended that there was money enough at his credit to cover that there was money enough at his credit to cover the balance of the debt due the government. He (Mr. Brown) maintained that the correspondence which the hon. gentleman (Mr. Holton) thought established his case did not do so in the slightest degree—that security was given the Government for the remainder of its loan to the Company, and that the hon. member had given up the security without any authority, or justification whatever.

[The hon. gentlemen then went on for nearly two hours to quote from the official correspondence between Hon. Mr. Holton and Mr. Watkin, and argued that it showed the Government had acted strictly right in every particular with regard to the postal moneys, and that not one shilling had been paid out of the public chest without the authority of Parliament.]

Hon. Mr. HOLTON (who was apparently suffering from a severe cold) spoke in reply. He said it must be obvious to everyday that the hon. member for South Oxford had entirely evaded the main point at issue. He had failed to meet the charges made against him, although he had endeavoured, with some ingenuity, to gain his object by raising entirely different issues. He (Mr. Holton) would not at this hour speak at any great length, and would therefore confine himself to two points in reply. In the first place, as to the payment of $88,000, he concluded that the Government had not managed to make out their case. They could not advance a single reason, a single reason, a single argument in favor of their retrospective policy.

(Hear, hear.)

The Postmaster-General had vigorously defended his contracts for future service, and the Hon. President of the Council boasted that nota farthing of the public money had been expended without the authority of Parliament. Now he (Mr. Holton) found under the expenditure of the vote of credit of March, 1865, that the sum of $82,000 for postal service had in reality been paid—not under that vote of credit but under authority of an Order in Council, of November, 1864.

(Hear, hear.)

Hon. Mr. BROWN—I shall explain.

Hon. Mr. HOLTON—You can’t get rid of the facts.

(Oh, oh.)

Hon. Mr. BROWN explained at considerable length that no money had been paid out except what was particularly appropriated for that branch of the service.

Hon. Mr. HOLTON affirmed that the vote of credit had been used in a way not at all contemplated by the House—that in fact it had been used to cover up what would otherwise have gone into the unprovided items. Then with regard to the second point as to the delivery of the bonds, he (Mr. Holton) had to affirm that every letter sent by him, or received by him, when in the Government, had been submitted to his colleagues, and the leading idea running through every one of them was that the postal earnings should be applied to the payment of the special loan. His decision was that, in view of the fact that the Government was threatened with a vexatious suit, it would be much better to give up the bonds and hold the money, than to hold the bonds and hold the money, than to hold the bonds and acknowledge a claim on the part of the Company to the money.

(Hear, hear.)

It was better, he held—and he was sure no one would controvert the principle—that it was better to give up the bonds than the money. He, therefore, delivered up the former and held the latter; and for doing so, he (Mr. Holton) was now attacked by his own colleagues—by those who formerly approved his course, but who now paid this money under the colorable authority of a vote of credit. With regard to the letters of which the Hon. President of the Council had read extracts, he would ask, as a matter of justice to himself, that they be brought down before the end of the session, for public information.

Hon. Mr. CARTIER—Move that the documents be printed. We have no objection.

Hon. Mr. HOLTON did not wish to make such a motion, but hoped that since portions of these communications had been read they should go to the public in a complete form, as matter of justice to himself.

Hon. Mr. BROWN—What portion do you want?

Hon. Mr. HOLTON—I want the whole.

Hon. Mr. BROWN asked the hon. gentleman to let him know precisely what it was he wanted, and he would see about the matter.

In reply to Mr. J. S. ROSS—

Hon. Mr. GALT said it was quite impossible for him to state off-hand the precise state of affairs between the Province and the Grand Trunk.

Hon. Mr. HOLTON said he would be quite welling, since the hon. gentleman wanted light, to give him the information he required.

(Oh, oh, and laughter.)

The hon. gentleman then proceeded to repeat the principal figures mentioned by him in making his remarks about the postal subsidy during the evening sitting.

Mr. J. S. ROSS—I thought there was a settlement.

Hon. Mr. BROWN—No, no.

Hon. Mr. HOLTON—Not by a long chalk. (Laughter.)

Hon. Mr. HOWLAND made some explanatory remarks, which were not audible in the gallery.

Some dissuasion of a conversational nature took place, in which Messrs. M. C. CAMERON, DUNKIN, and one or two others, took part.

The SPEAKER was understood to ask whether the motion was carried when—

Hon. Mr. GALT—The motion is, Mr. Speaker, that you leave the chair, for the House is to go into Committee of Ways and Means.

(Hear, hear.)

Hon. J. S. MACDONALD—In fact, Mr. Speaker, it is a mean way of getting you out of the chair.

(Roars of laughter.)

The motion was carried, and the House went into Committee of Ways of Means.

WAYS AND MEANS.

The House being in Committee of Ways and Means—Mr. STREET in the chair.

Hon. Mr. GALT moved the following resolution—

That towards making good the supply granted to Her Majesty, the sum of $,506,052 be appropriated out of the Consolidated Revenue fund of the Province.

That the sum of $20,200 be appropriated for the same purpose, from the Building and Jury Fund, Lower Canada.

That the sum $25,000 be appropriated, for the same purpose, from the Building Fund of Upper Canada.
That in order to enable the Consolidated Revenue Fund to meet the foregoing charges, the Government in Council shall be authorized to raise a sum not exceeding one million dollars, by the sale of Provincial Stock and Provincial Debentures, or both.

The resolutions were carried.

The CHAIRMAN reported the resolutions, and the Committee obtained leave to sit again.

Hon. Mr. GALT moved that the House do concur in the report of the Committee of Ways and Means.

Hon. Mr. HOLTON objected. He (Mr. Holton) wished to get some information form the Hon. Finance Minster on the subject of the unfunded debt. The concurrence was the right time to obtain such information, but he was certainly not prepared to go into discussion at this hour of the morning. He would, therefore, oppose taking the concurrence now.

(“Now, now,” cheers and confusion.)

SEVERAL HON. MEMBERS—Take the con. concurrence now.

Hon. Mr. HOLTON refused, and reiterated his reasons for refusal.

Hon. Mr. GALT said it was well under these circumstances that it should be throughly understood by the House that this was simply and solely through factious opposition—in order to bring about senseless and meaningless delay.

(Hear, hear, and cheers.)

His conduct would have the effect of keeping hon. members here for three or four days, perhaps for another week. He might, therefore, try to justify his conduct as best he could. He (Mr. Galt) would move that the report of the Committee of Ways and means be concurred in on Thursday.

STAMP DUTY.

Order No. 1, for the receiving of the report of the Committee of Supply—resolution for stamp duty on promissory notes of $100 and under—having been called,

Hon. Mr. GALT moved that the report of the Committee be concurred in.

Hon. Mr. HOLTON asked a division on the motion.

The House divided, and the report of the Committee was received not he following division:—

YEAS.—Messrs. Archambault, Ault, Beaubien, Bell (Russell,) Bellerose, Brousseau, Brown, Carling, Cartier, Cartwright, Cauchon, Chapais, Cockburn, Corneiller, DeBoucherville, Denis, DeNiverville, Duckett, Dunsford, Gancher, Gagnon, Galt, Harwood, Higginson, Howland, Haultain, Ford Jones, Knight, Langevin, Magill, J. A. Macdonald, Alex. Mackenzie, McDougall, McGee, McIntyre, McKellar, Morris, Pope, Poulin, Powell, Sylvester J. Ross, Shanly, A. M. Smith, Stirton, Street, Webb, Wells, Wilson and Alonzo Wright.—47.

NAYS.—Messrs. Bourassa, Cameron, Caron, Coupal, A. A. Dorion, Eric Dorion, Alex. Dufresne, Thomas Ferguson, Fortier, Gaudet, Colton, House, Lajoie, J. S. Macdonald, McConkey, Paquette, Parker, Perrault, Pinsonneault, and Walter Ross.—20.

Hon. Mr. GALT introduced a bill to amend the act relative to stamp duties on promissory notes.—Read a first time.

Mr. POWELL wished to ask whether the Finance Minister was aware that there must be considerable evasion of the law in reference to the stamp duty on bills. It appeared that the whole amount fo duty derived from the source during the year was only 112,000. Now he (Mr. Powell) had been told to-day by a firm, not doing the largest business in Quebec, that they had paid $680 last year in stamp duties. This being the case, the revenue from the whole Province ought assuredly to be much larger than it was.
Hon. Mr. GALT was understood to reply that there was some provision in the act respecting frauds.

DUTIES OF EXCISE.

On motion of Hon. Mr. GALT the bill respecting duties of excise was read in second time.

THE ORDER OF PRECEDENCE.

Hon. Mr. McGEE asked that order number 4, being a bill to provide against the introduction and spreading of disorders affecting certain animals (from the Legislative Council), be next taken up.

Hon. Mr. HOLTON—No, this cannot be done. The Government can go forward upon the orders of the day, but cold not go back.

(Hear, hear, and cries of “go on, go on.”)

Hon. GALT argued that the Government had a right to take up any of their own measures in the order they pleased.

Hon. J. A. MACDONALD said that such had been the practice for many years.

Hon. Mr. HOLTON quoted rule No. 24 of the House, in support of his objection.

SEVERAL HON. MEMBERS—Withdraw your objection.

(Cheers.)

Hon. Mr. HOLTON—No, I object.

(Cries of oh, oh.)

The SPEAKER said that the rule had been disregarded for many years, but since the hon. gentleman invoked it, he must, of course, enforce it.

THIRD READINGS OF PRIVATE BILLS.

The following private bills were then read a third time and passed:

Bill further to amend an Act intituled “An Act to incorporate certain persons under the name of the Richelieu Company.”—Hon. Mr. CAUCHON.

Bill to amend the Act to incorporate the Toronto and Georgian Bay Canal Company.—Mr. FERGUSON (South Simcoe).

Bill to extend the time for the completion of the Canada Central Railway.—mr. POWELL.

Bill to amend the Acts relating to the Intercolonial Bridge Company.—Mr. WALSH.

THIRD READINGS—PUBLIC BILLS.

Hon. Mr. HOLTON withdrew his objection to the Government going back upon the orders of the day.

Order No 4 was then taken up, and the following bills were passed through Committee of the Whole, and read a third time, viz.:

Bill to provide against the introduction and spreading of disorders affecting certain animals. (From the Legislative Council).—Hon. Mr. McGEE.

House in Committee on Bill (No. 10) an Act respecting Registrars and Registry Offices, and the Registration of Instruments relating to Lands in Upper Canada (and amendments).—Hon. Mr. Sol.-Gen. COCKBURN.

Bill to incorporate La Caisse d’Epargne St. Roch de Montreal (and amendments).—Hon. Mr. CARTIER.

Bill intituled, an Act specially to incorporate the Tadousac Hotel and Sea Bathing Company [from the Legislative Council] [with amendments.]—Hon. Mr. Sol.-Gen. LANGEVIN.

Bill to regulate the costs of arbitrators (and amendment).—Hon. Mr. Attorney-General MACDONALD.

Bill to amend the Law of Property and Trusts in Upper Canada.—Hon. Mr. Atty.-Gen. MACDONALD.

Bill to incorporate the Mount Royal Railway Company (and amendments).—Hon. Mr. Atty.-General CARTIER.

Bill intituled, “An Act to authorize the Cure and Marguilliers of the (Euvre and Fabrique of the Parish of Notre Dame de Quebec, to borrow a certain sum of money on the security of the property of the said Fabrique (from Legislative Council).—(Reported.) Hon. Mr. Solicitor-General LANGEVIN.

Bill to incorporate “The Rideau Club” (and amendments).—Hon. Atty.-General MACDONALD.

Bill to establish certain road allowances and highways in the Township of Hamilton (and amendments).—Hon. Mr. Sol.General COCKBURN.

Bill to amend and extend the acts relating to the Cobourg and Peterborough Railway Company (and amendments).—Hon. Mr. Sol.-General COCKBURN.

Bill, an Act to authorize the Cobourg and Peterborough Railway Company to construct a tramway or railway from the Marmora Iron Works to the River Trent, or to Rice Lake, and for other purposes (Reported).—Hon. Mr. Sol.-General COCKBURN.

SECOND READINGS—PUBLIC BILLS.

The following public bills were read a second time and referred to Committee:—

Bill to extend and amend the Acts respecting public works to and with respect to works connected with the defences of this Province.—Hon. Atty. Gen. MACDONALD.

Bill to amend the 7th sub-section of the 1st section of the 23rd chapter of the statues passed in the 27th and 28th years of Her Majesty’s reign respecting the granting of charters of incorporation to manufacturing, mining and other companies.—Hon. Mr. McDOUGALL.

Bill to enable the trustees of the Congregation of St. Andrew’s Church, in the township of Ramsay, in connection with the Church of Scotland, to dispose of the Glebe thereto belonging and for other purposes.—Hon. Mr. McDOUGALL.

Bill to amend the Gold Mining Act, 27th and 28th Victoria, chapter nine (from Legislative Council).—Hon. Mr. McDOUGALL.

Bill to vest the York Roads in the County of York, and to exonerate the County of Peel from all liability therefor.—Hon. Mr. Sol. Gen. COCKBURN.

Bill gathering additional facilities in commercial transactions (from the Legislative Council).—Hon. Mr. Sol. Gen. LANGEVIN.

Bill An Act to amend the Act respecting Short Forms of Mortgages in Upper Canada (from Legislative Council).—Hon. Mr. Sol. Gen. COCKBURN.

Bill for the prevention of Contagious Diseases at certain Naval and Military Stations in this Province.—Hon. Mr. Atty. Gen. MACDONALD.

Bill the amend Chapter sixty-two of the Consolidated Statutes of Canada, and to provide for the better regulation of Fishing and protection of Fisheries (from Legislative Council).—Hon. Mr. Sol. Gen. COCKBURN.

Bill An Act for the further improvement of Grammar Schools in Upper Canada.—Hon. Mr. McDOUGALL.

Bill An Act respecting the Court of Queen’s Bench in Lower Canada.—Hon. Mr. Atty. Genl. CARTIER.

Bill intituled An Act to amend the Act respecting the ordinary procedure in the Superior and Circuit Courts for Lower Canada (from Legislative Council).—Hon. Mr. Atty. Gen. CARTIER.

Bill intituled An Act to amend Chapter thirty-two of Consolidated Statues of Canada, respecting the Bureau of Agriculture and Agricultural Societies (from Legislative Council) Hon. Mr. McGEE.

VOLUNTEER AND MILITIA LAW.

On motion of Hon. J. A. MACDONALD, the bill relating to the Volunteers and Militia of this Province was read a second time.

On motion of Hon. J. A. MACDONALD, the House then—at a quarter to three a.m.—adjourned.