Province of Canada, Legislative Assembly, 8th Parl, 4th Sess (11 September 1865)

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Date: 1865-09-11
By: Province of Canada (Parliament), Morning Chronicle
Citation: “Provincial Parliament. Legislative Assembly. Monday, Sept. 11th” [Quebec] Morning Chronicle (12 September 1865).
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MONDAY, Sept. 11th.

The SPEAKER took the Chair at three o’clock.

After routine—


Mr. McFARLANE moved for leave to introduce a bill to consolidate and provide for the payment of the debt of the County of Perth.—Read a first time.


Mr. J. B. E. DORION moved the third reading of the bill to confirm the actual survey of the Township of Bulstrode, County of Arthabaska.—Carried.


On the order fort the House going into Committee on the bill to authorize the admission of William Lynn Smart as a barrister in Upper Canada—

Mr. POWELL said that if the Hon. Attorney General West persisted in his opposition to the bill, he (Mr. Powell) would not press it.

Hon. J. A. MACDONALD certainly thought the bill ought not to pass. The Law Society, and the profession generally was opposed to such bills, and they were usually thrown out in the Upper House.

Hon. J. S. MACDONALD also opposed the bill.

Mr. POWELL did not think a stronger case could be made out for any applicant for special legislation than Mr. Smart. If, however, those who, by their position, were entitled to be considered the heads of the legal profession in this House—namely, the Attorney-General West—were strongly opposed to this bill, he would not press it.

Mr. M. C. CAMERON was as desirous as any other hon. gentleman to see the standard of the profession kept up; but he thought that in this case. the bill should be allowed to pass, inasmuch as Mr. Smart had fulfilled all the necessary requirements.
After some further discussion—

Hon. J. A. MACDONALD moved the fortnight’s house, which was carried.

Mr. POWELL moved that the fees the bill be remitted.—Carried.


Hon. Mr. ALLEYN moved that the Speaker do leave the chair, and that the House go into Committee of the Whole on the bill to am3end and consolidate the provisions contained in the acts and ordinances relating to the incorporation of the City of Quebec, and to vest more ample power in the said corporation.

The motion was carried, and the House went into Committee—Mr. BOURASSA in the chair.

Hon. Mr. ALLEYN said he was quite prepared to accept a measure of compromise, and even to vote on one or two points against his condition, for the purpose of having the bill passed this session, because he believed—if the bill did not go through—the credit of the city would be very seriously affected, and indeed the credit of the country, inasmuch as a number of Quebec debentures were held in England. For this reason he was prepared to amend considerable sacrifices, and he would therefore suggest that the bill should go through Committee now in its present shape, and that the discussion should be taken in the—

SEVERAL HON. MEMBERS—No, no. (Cheers and confusion.)

Hon. Mr. ALLEYN—Did hon. gentlemen know what he intended to say? (Laughter.) He suffused that the discussion should be taken on the concurrence.

Hon. Mr. DORION said that the proposition of the last speaker appeared fair, but was not so in reality. Hon. members talked about a compromise, but there was in reality no compromise. The bill, after its introduction, had been sent to a sub-Committee of the Private Bill Committee—all the members of which had voted to deprive the citizens of Quebec of their franchise.

(Cries of hear, hear, and no, no.)

Hon. Mr. ROSE begged to remind the hon. gentlemen that there were on that sub-committee, the hon. members for West Brant, Missisquoi and Bellechasse.

Hon. Mr. DORION said that all except the hon. members for West Brant and Missisquoi (Messrs. Wood and O’Halloran) had voted against the Quebec City Charter.

(Hear, hear.)

Hon. Mr. ROSE—No, I did not. (Hear, hear.)

Hon. Mr. DORION—Well, you were not here.

Hon. Mr. ROSE—I was not here—I did not vote one way or the other.

Mr. IRVINE—I only voted for an enquiry into the affairs of the Corporation.

(Hear, hear.)

Hon. Mr. DORION said that the Quebec Corporation had been charged with not seeking for powers to cope with the difficulties of their position. This was not the case. They had come before the House, sessions after session, for such amendments as would enable then to meet the indebtedness arising from public improvements. They did not ask, however, for any constitutional changes. The action of the Corporation of Quebec in asking for legislative relief was most praiseworthy. What was proposed now was, however, to give them a number of radical changes in the constitution of the municipal body. The result would just be that corporate bodies would not come to us for amendments to their charter, no matter how much they were in need of them. Why should an exceptional rule be made as to the election of the Mayor of Quebec, distinct forms he Mayor that of any other city in Lower Canada? If the people of Quebec were fit to elect their own members of the Legislative Assembly and Legislative Council, they were surely fit to elect their own Mayors.

Hon. Mr. ROSE suggested, by way of saving time, that the amendments should be moved on the congruence.

Hon. Mr. HOLTON thought the motion would have the effect of forcing conditional changes upon the people which they had not asked.

Hon. Mr. ROSE said the bill was, in effect, a new bill.

Hon. Mr. HOLTON suggested that the bill should be placed in the same position as when introduced on the prayer of the Corporation of Quebec. The bill, in its present shape, was actually coupled with the declaration that the citizens were incapable of managing their own affairs.

Hon. Mr. BROWN recommended a compromise. Suppose we agree to take a vote upon these clauses—one upon each clause—without further discussion; and then we could have a full discussion upon the concurrence.

Hon. Mr. ALLEYN said the three Quebec members were agreed upon every point but this respecting the election of Mayor.

Hon. Mr. CAUCHON said that in this bill there were most extraordinary guarantees given the creditors, and if the new clauses were not adopted, the citizens would have no security whatever for the protection of their interests. He wanted the interests of those who paid the taxers protected, and he considered this clause giving the election of Mayor to the Councillors was necessary for the purpose. We had seen a specimen of the petitioners against the clause int he crown that came to the Parliament House, on the alarm of fire on Saturday, in order the frighten us.

(Hear, hear.)

Hon. Mr. LANGEVIN asked was he correct in understanding the member for Quebec West to say that the three members for this city were agreed on all the amendments proposed to the bill expect the single point before the Committee (Mayoralty election clause.)

Hon. Mr. EVANTUREL—He said so.

Hon. Mr. LANGEVIN said if that was the case he fit not see the difficulty in the Bill being gone through, the amendments being made which the three members had agreed to, and the vote being taken on the single point under discussion, which would leave only one vote to be taken.

Hon. Mr. DORION said the Quebec members had not agreed on all the other points. The proposition was—that they would agree to this if the others were settled; but the hon. member for Montmorency would never consent to this change in the mayoralty clause.

Hon. Mr. CAUCHON—That point has not been settled.

Hon. Mr. DORION—Then there is no agreement about the others.

AN HON. MEMBER—Was it not conditional on this being settled, that the others would be agreed to?

Hon. Mr. LANGEVIN—Suppose they had agreed to all the other amendments, provided this single point was carried.

Hon. Mr. DORION—They have not so agreed.

Hon. Mr. LANGEVIN—But suppose they had. It appears they had all agreed, except the member, for Montmorency, provided an agreement be come to on this point.

Some further remarks, were made, but the noise and confusion which characterized the whole debate prevented their reaching the reporters.

Mr. HUOT said something, but was entirely inaudible.

Mr. IRVINE said it was quite clear they would never get through this Bill unless we went through it in the ordinary way. The more we tried to explain the misunderstanding, the more confusion was the result. We must proceed in another way.

(Hear, hear.)

Mr. MORRIS thought the suggestion was a good one. He thought we should proceed to cinder the Bill clause by clause, believing that it would be found the majority of the provisions wouldn’t be agreed to.

Mr. HUOT moved that the second sub-section of the firth clause be amended by stroking out the second line, and that a clause be inserted to the second line, and that a clause reinserted to the effect that the Mayor be elected by the electors qualified to cote for City Councillors.

(Cheers and counter cheers, noise and confusion.)

Hon. Mr. HOLTON asked how was this Bill to be carried under any other arrangement. After one division a motion had been put, and a division taken, when the amendment was carried; and the hon. gentleman in the opposite interest got up and insisted upon putting the amendment. That was an end to any arrangement being had, if we were to be met in this way.

Hon. Mr. GALT said he knew nothing of any arrangement having been recently arrived at. It was not for the hon. member to say the motion in amendment was carried.

Hon. Mr. HOLTON and other MEMBERS cried—it was carried.

The Chairman, having been appealed to by several members, clamouring for a decision, was understood to declare the amendment was carried.

SEVERAL MEMBERS—No; it has not been carried.
Hon. Mr. GALT did not understand it to have been carried. He demanded a division.

(Cheers, dissent, and uproar.)

Hon. Mr. EVENTUREL said he did not think that those who stated the Chairman declared the amendment carried, did him justice. (Hear, hear, and much noise.)

Hon. Mr. DORION said that, of course, if there was a misunderstanding as to whether the motion was carried, the members ought not to be taken by surprise. A vote should be taken, though he understood the morion was carried.

Hon. Mr. CHAIRMAN said there was still an amendment before the Committee, proposed by the hon. member for Quebec West—namely, that the Mayor be elected from among the Councillors, by the municipal electors of Quebec.

Mr. DUNKIN thought the amendment to the amendment proposed the very worst scheme possible.

Hon. Mr. ALLEYN—I withdraw my amendment.

Mr. IRVINE proposed in amendment to the resolution—That the Mayor be elected by the same class of electors as those who vote for Aldermen, namely—the proprietors of the assessed annual value of $50 and upwards.

A division was now taken, the friends and opponents of the last amendment crossing to opposite sides of the House, this being the mode of taking a vote when the House is in Committee. The result was the adoption of Mr. Irvine’s amendment by 51 against 44.

(The announcement of the figures was greeted with cheers.)

Hon. Mr. DORION said it was proposed to make two different classes of electors in the City of Quebec. He wished to have this proposition well understood. If it was necessary to raise the qualification of electors, raise it all through. But to make a distinction between the electors of the Aldermen and Mayor on one hand, and the lectors of the Councillors on the other was preposterous. It would lead to difficulties and disturbances at the polls, which would also be renewed in the Council itself.

Mr. O’HALLORAN moved to strike out the clause providing that no person should be entitled to vote for Alderman unless he shall be a proprietor of real estate, within the said city, of the assessed value of fifty dollars or upwards.

Hon. Mr. DORION said that the object of this amendment was to do away with the distinction of two classes of electors.

The division was taken—again in the manner always practised in Committee— namely, by appointing tellers and counting the members—no record being taken.
A great deal of confusion prevailed while the tellers were performing their duty, and considerable merriment was created by the efforts of those who voted “Yea” to detain the hon. members for Montmorency and Beauharnois on the right side of the Speaker’s Chair, being the side on which stood those who voted in the affirmative.

Hon. Mr. CAUCHON succeeded after a struggle which excited a good deal of amusement in breaking away from his captors, and ranging himself with the “Nays.”

Mr. DENNIS, however, was not so successful, being detained by Hon. Messrs. Laframboise and Thibaudeau.

The tellers communicated the result to the chairman, who announced that the amendment was lost on a divission—Yeas 40, Nays 50.

The bill passed through Committee without further amendment.

On the question of concurrence in the amendment,

Mr. HUOT moved that the Report of the Committee of the Whole be not now concurred in, but that it be recommitted to Committee of the Whole, with a view to amend the same by providing that the Mayor shall be elevated by the same electors who are qualified to vote for City Councillors.

In the course of some discussion which followed—

AN HON. MEMBER remarked that this clause would have the effect of depriving the electrons qualified to vote for Aldermen of the right to vote for Mayor.

(Hear, hear.)

Hon. Mr. DORION—Of course not, inasmuch as those who are qualified to vote for Aldermen are also qualified to vote for Councillors. (Hear, hear.)

Finally, the amendment was lost on a division, viz:—

YEAS.—Messrs. Bowman, Biggar, Bourassa, Bown, M. C. Cameron, Caron, Coupal, Cowan, Dickson, A. A. Dorion, Eric Dorion. Dunkin, Fortier, Gibbs, Gagnon, Geoffrion, Holton, House, Huot, Labreche-Vigar Laframboise, Lajoie, John Macdonald, J. S. Macdonald, Alex. Mackenzie, McConkey, McFarlane, McGivern, McIntyre, McKellar, Munro, Magill, O’Halloran, Paquette, Parker, Perrault, Pouliot, J. S. Ross, Rymal, Scatcherd, Scoble, Stirton. Street, Thibaudeau, T. C. Wallbridge, Wells, White, Amos Wright._48.

NAYS.—Messrs. Alleyn, Archambault, Ault, Beaubien, Bell (Russell), Bellerose, Balnchet, Brousseau, Brown, Carling, Cartwright, Caughon, Chapais, Cockburn, Cornellier, Denis, Duckett, Joseph Dufresne, Dunsford, Evanturel, T. Ferguson, W. Fergusson, Galt, Gauset, Gaucher, Higginson, Howland, Irvine, Jackson, Ford Jones, Langevin, Le Boutiller, Morrison, J. A. Macdonald, Hope Mackenzie, McDougall, McGee, Morris, Pinsonneault, Poulin, Powell, Raymond, Rémillard, Robitaille, Rose, J. J. Ross, Shanly, A. M. Smith, J. Shuter Smith, Somerville, Sylvain, Taschereau, Tremblay, Walsh, Wilson, Alonzo Wright.—57.

Hon. Mr. ALLEYN again suggested that it would be much better to move these amendments on the third reading. (Hear, hear, and yes, yea.)

Hon. Mr. DORION moved to strike out the distinction between the two classes of electors (those qualified to vote for Aldermen and those qualified to vote for Councillors) and to fix the franchise for the Mayor’s election at $20 assessed annual value for proprietors, tenants, &c.

Mr. WHITE suggested that it should be thirty dollars as in Upper Canada.

Mr. GIBBS made the same suggestion.

After some discussion the figure in the amendment was understood to be fixed at the sum suggested.

The amendment was then put to the vote and lost on the following division:—

YEAS.—Messrs. Bowman, Biggar, Bourassn, M. C. Cameron, Caron, Coupal, Cowan, Denis, Dickson, A. A. Dorion, Eric Dorion, Dunkin, Dunsford, Fortier, Gibbs, Geoffrion, Holton, Houde, Howland, Huntington, Haultain, Labreche-Viger, Laframboise, Lajoie, John Macdonald, J. S. Macdonald, Alex. Mackenzie, McConkey, Munro, Magill. O’Halloran, Paquette, Parker, Perrault, J. Sylvester Ross, Walter Ross, Rymal, Scatcherd, Scoble, A. M. Smith, Stirton, Street, Thibaudeau, Wells and White.—49.

NAYS.—Messrs. Alleyn, Archambault, Ault, Beaubien, Bell (Russell,) Bellerose, Blanchet, Brousseau, Brown, Carling, Cartier, Cartwright, Cauchon, Chambers, Chapais, Cockburn, Cornellier, Duckett, Joseph Dufresne, Evanturel, Thomas Ferguson, William Ferguson, Gagnon, Galt, Gaudet, Gancher, Higginson, Huot, Irvine, Ford Jones, Langevin, LeBoutillier, Morrison, J. A. Macdonald Hope Mackenzie, McDougall, McGee, Morris, Pinsonneault, Poulin, Powell, Raymond, Remillard, Robitaille, Rose, J. J. Ross. Shanly, J. Shuter, Smith, Somerville, Sylvain, Taschereau, Tremblay, T. C. Wallbridge, Walsh, Wilson and Alonzo Wright.—57.

The amendments were then concurred in, on a division, and on the bill was ordered for a third reading on Tuesday.

It being six o’clock, the SPEAKER left the Chair.

After the recess—


On motion of Mr. SCATCHERD the House went into Committee to authorize the admission of Henry Hart Coyne to practice as an Attorney and Solicitor in the Courts of Law and Equity in Upper Canada—Mr. MORRISON in the chair.

The Committee reported the bill without amendment.—Read a third time and passed.


On motion of Hon. Mr. CAUCHON, the House went into the Committee on the bill to amend the act to incorporate the Richelieu Company—Mr. DUFRESNE in the chair.

The bill was reported without amendment, and read a third time.


On order for resuming the adjourned debate upon the question proposed by the Hon. Mr. ROSE, that the Speaker do now leave the chair for House in Committee on bill to legalize or confirm an agreement made between the Grand Trunk Railway Company of Canada and the Buffalo and Lake Huron Railway Company—Mr. DUFRESNE in the chair.

The bill was reported without amendment, and read a third time.


On the order for resuming the adjourned debate upon the question proposed by the Hon. Mr. ROSE, that the Speaker do now leave the chair for House in Committee on bill to legalize or confirm an agreement made between the Grand Trunk Railway Company of Canada and the Buffalo and Lake Huron Railway Company (and amendments), and upon Mr. McKELLAR’s proposed motion in amendment thereto—
Hon. Mr. ROSE said—This is a Bill which had excited some little interest in the Committee for some time, and particularly in the minds of some of my friends sitting behind me—(looking towards the seats of Messrs. McFarlane and Street.) I wish, therefore, to say a few words at this stage of the measure. It is now very late in the session; there is a great deal both of public and private business to transact, and it is probably better not to press the Bill further at present. It has been referred to the Standing Committee on Railways and Telegraph Lines, and was fully and ably discussed there, not only in the interest of the public, but in that of the two great Corporations whose special interests were supposed to be affected by the provisions of this Bill. That Committee had the advantage of hearing both honorable members opposed to the amalgamation on principle, and also Mr. Brydges, the Managing Director of the Grand Trunk Railway, and the Solicitor of the Great Western Railway. Everything those gentlemen could urge in favor of their respective views was submitted, and considered by that Committee, which, after examining the matter in all its bearings, decided by a majority of four to report the Bill to this House. I am well, aware the measure has excited a great deal of discussion and feeling throughout the country; but believe that the apprehensions which many of the members entertain, and, no doubt, conscientiously, with respect to the public consequences of this Bill, are entirely unfounded. But, having the desire of not obstructing either the public or private business of this session, the premoters of the Bill have come to the conclusion not to press it on the present occasion.

(Loud cheers, and merriment on the part of the opponents of the Bill.)

I am glad to find that this has given such pleasure to my hon. Friends, who will now see that the constitutional dangers which have been threatening the country in connection with this Bill are likely to be removed.

(Hear, hear, and laughter.)

I trust my hon. friend (understood to mean Mr. Street, the member for Welland) will now, for the remainder of his life, remain an earnest and sincere Conservative, instead of showing those Liberal proclivities which he has so publicly manifested this afternoon. I am quite sure my friend’s fears for the safety of the country, arising out of the proposed amalgamation, will be now effectually dissipated.

(Hear, and renewed laughter.)

The promoters of the Bill have, therefore, for the reasons I have stated, determined to take this course. Well, in the first place, the arrangement the untied Companies have made themselves, under the existing law, continues in force for 21 years. There can be no doubt about that. I believe that, by directing their attention to the strict business interests of the country they will outlive those prejudices which they have to encounter on all occasions. I believe that after the arrangement entered into between the two railway companies shall have been carried out for a year or two, it will be seen that they have devoted themselves earnestly to the accommodation of the business of the Western Peninsula, and that it will be for the public interest to continue the agreement as it now exists.

(Hear, hear.)

I believe that the gentleman who have shown such a strong opposition to this bill will be among the first to perceive the benefits that will be derived from the operation of the arrangement the companies have entered into. I do not move that the item be discharged from the orders from any fear for the passage of the bill. I know the House has been canvassed thoroughly and earnestly.

(Cheers and laughter.)

I do not mean to say we were going to carry the bill by an overwhelming majority.

(Hear, hear, counter-cheers and laughter.)

But my friend, the member for Weelan, knows very well we could have carried it by a majority.

(“No, “no,” and “yes,” “yes.”)

It is because we do not desire to obstruct the whole business of the session, seeing that we have, under the existing law, the means of satisfying the public of the good faith with which this arrangement has been entered into, that the promoters of this bill have decided to withdraw it this time. I move, therefore, that the order respecting this bill be discharged.

(Cheers from the opponents of the measure.)

The order was discharged accordingly.

[An amusing scene now occurred, some of the stoutest openers of the bill crossing the floor and shaking the hon. member for Montreal Centre by the hand, congratulating him upon his course in a manner as earnest and grateful-looking as if they had escaped a great public calamity. The hon. gentleman, keenly enjoying the fun, seemed the very embodiment of “laughter holding both his sides,” and appeared greatly tickled by the thought of members fancying they had gained by a step which, it is generally believed, placed his clients at no disadvantage whatever.]


On motion of Mr. IRVINE the amendments made by the Legislative Council to the Bill to incorporate the English and Canadian Mining Company, were read a second and a third time, and concurred in.


On motion of Mr. CURRIER, the House went into Committee on the bill to incorporate the Canadian Institute of Ottawa—Mr. FORD JONES in the chair.

The bill was reported without amendment, and ordered for a third reading on Tuesday.


On motion of Hon. Mr. HOLTON, the House went into Committee on the bill to amend the act incorporating the Montreal Homeopathic Association and to change the name of the same—Mr. O’HALLORAN in the Chair.

The bill was reported without amendment and read a third time.


On motion of Hon. Mr. ALLEYN, the bills to incorporate “Jeffery Hale’s Hospital” and “Jeffery Hale’s Sunday School” passed through Committee of the Whole—Col. HAULTAIN in the Chair.—Read a third time.


On motion of Mr. STREET, the House went into Committee on the bill to incorporate the St. Catherine’s General Hospital—Dr. PARKER in the Chair.

The bill was also reported without amendment.


Hon. Mr. ROSE moved that the House go into Committee on the Bill to incorporate the European Assurance Society, and to authorize the acceptance of the said society as security for public officer.

After some discussion the bill was allowed to stand over.


Mr. T. FERGUSON moved that the House go into Committee on the Bill to amend the Act incorporating the Toronto and Georgian Bay Canal Company.

Hon. Mr. BROWN asked the hon. member not to press the bill. It would not at all advance the undertaking. On the contrary, it might have the effect of impeding the work in after years, if the Government had any desire to take it up.

Mr. T. FERGUSON said that if his hon. friend was opposed to the bill he must certainly take the responsibility of rejecting it, for he (Mr. Ferguson) would press for a division. There were still six years to run; the parties whose names appeared in the bill were quite able to go on with what they proposed to do now, which was simply to enable the Provisional Board to cause shafts to be sunk in the ridges along the route, so as to test the practicability of the work. This private company would not at all interfere with the Government undertaking. On the contrary, it would save the Government the cost of a geological or other survey.

(Hear, hear.)

Hon. Mr. BROWN said that it appeared from the manner I which the Bill read that mr. Capreoak was to have charge of the funds until one million was raised.

Mr. T. FERGUSON said that this was not what was intended by the Bill.

Mr. McCONKEY supported the Bill, and hoped that the Hon. President of the Council would withdraw his opposition. He (Mr. McConkey) had no objection to have the clause alluded to by the Hon. President of the Council withdrawn.

The motion was carried, and the House went into Committee.

The Bill was reported with amendment.


The following private bills also passed through Committee of the Whole:

Bill to confirm a survey of a portion of the Township of Ely, in the County of Shefford (from Legislative Council) (reported)—Mr. O’HALLORAN.

Bill to incorporate the Knowlton Cemetery Company (and amendments)—mr. DUNKIN.

Bill to enable the Incumbent of Trinity Church, in the town of Simcoe, to sell and convey a certain parcel of land therein mentioned (and amendments).—Mr. WALSH.

Bill to authorize the mortgaging of certain property belonging to Christ Church, in the city of Ottawa, acquired for the erection thereon of a Personage house (and amendments).—Mr. POWELL.

Bill to enable Richard Walkem to be examined by the Law Society of Upper Canada for admission therein (and amendments).—Mr. CARTWRIGHT.

Bill to incorporate the Village of Berthier as a Town (and amendments).—Mr. PAQUET.

Bill to amend the Act to establish an institution of Landed Credit (Credit Foncier) (and amendments).—Mr. DUFRESNE (Montcalm).

Bill to incorporate the Union Bank of Lower Canada (and amendments).—Mr. IRVINE.

Bill to incorporate the Bothwell Land and Petroleum Company ((and amendments).—Hon. Mr. CARLING.

Bill respecting the Gaspe Bay Mining Company (from Legislative Council) (and amendments).—Mr. BELL.

Bill to grant certain powers to the Waterloo Mutual Fire Insurance Association (and amendments).—Mr. BOWMAN.

Bill to amend the acts relating to the Bank of Upper Canada (from Legislative Council).—Mr. STREET.

Bill to extend the time for the completion of the Canada Central Railway (reported).—Mr. POWELL.

Bill to amend the acts relating to the International Bridge Company (reported).—Mr. WALSH.


The following private bills were read a second time and referred to Committee:—
Bill to appoint trustees to wind-up the estate of the late Alexander Macdonell, according to the terms of his last will and testament [from Legislative Council].—Mr. CARTWRIGHT.

Bill to limit the application of a certain general hypothee created by Daniel McCallum and his wife, to a certain lot of land [from Legislative Council].—Mr. ROBITAILLE.

Bill, an act to incorporate the curé of the Parish of Notre Dame de Quebec (from Legislative Council).—Hon. Mr. Sol. Gen. LANGEVIN.

Bill, and act to legalize certain assessments in the city of Toronto, and to enable the said city to recover the taxes rated and charged (from Legislative Council).—Mr. MACDONALD (Toronto).


On motion of mr. BOURASSA the House went into Committee on the Bill to amend the act receipting interest and amendments—Mr. GEOFFRION in the chair.

Hon. Mr. CARTIER repeated his belief that, so fart as commercial men are concerned, there should be no restriction, but that in non-commercial transactions there should be a limit fixed.

Mr. BOURASSA moved to strike cut “ten per cent” in the Bill, and substitute “eight per cent.
 Col. BLANCHET, in amendment to the last amendment, moved to substitute “six per cent” for “eight per cent.”

Mr. A. MACKENZIE (Lambton) moved that the Committee rise.

The last-named amendment was put to the vote and lost—57 yeas, 41 nays.

Hon. J. S. MACDONALD would like to know how “shaving” was going to be suppressed; unless they came to a decision on that point all the legislation on the subject of the rate of interest would be a farce.

Hon. Mr. CARTIER said if this motion, in amendment, were carried, it would kill the Bill. He opposed the motion, in consequence.

Hon. Mr. BROWN said it would be cruel to impose 10 per cent for money, when by carrying this motion it could be got for six.

(Hear, and laugher.)

The motion of Col. BLANCHET was now put and carried.

Hon. J. A. MACDONALD—I think it would be well to appoint a standing committee to raise money for us all at six per cent.


After some further discussion and humorous and sarcastic remarks, on the part of several members,

Mr. MORRIS thought that this matter should not be treated in such a light and sneering manner as the Hon. President of the Council had indulged in, particularly when a majority of the House were in favor of a bill to fix the interest on money.

Hon. Mr. BROWN—No, no.

Mr. MORRIS contended that such was the case, and that the measure should be treated in a manner becoming its importance.

Mr. RANKIN moved in amendment that a clause be added, compelling every subject of Her Majesty having any capital to command, to lend the whole or any part of it to any other subject who may wish to borrow at six per cent, on pain of banishment from this Province.


After some further discussion—

Mr. SCOBLE moved that the Committee fo rise. Lost on a division—yeas 42, nays 58.
Some further time was spent in the discussion off the bill, when, finally, the Committee rose and reported it, making the concurrence the first order of the day for to-morrow.


The following public bills passed through Committee, and were read a third time:
Bill to amend the acts respecting the building and repairing of Churches, Parsonage Houses, and Church Yards—Mr. DUFRESNE (Montcalm.)

Bill to provide more fully for the punishment of offences against the person in respect to the crime of kidnapping, (and amendments)—Mr. O’HALLORAN.

Bill to make further provision for the management of Permanent Building Societies in Upper Canada, (and amendments)—Mr. STREET.

Bill to regulate the qualifications of practitioners in Medicine and Surgery in Upper Canada, (and amendments)—Mr. PARKER.

Bill to amend the Game Laws of Upper Canada, (and amendments)—Mr. WALSH.

The Prorogation

In reply to a question put by Walter Shanly [Grenville South], in the course of the afternoon sitting

John A. Macdonald [Kingston, Attorney-General West and Minister of Militia] said that the Government was not in a position to inform the house on what day the prorogation would take place. 

The House adjourned at a quarter past one a. m.

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