Province of Canada, Legislative Assembly, Scrapbook Debates, 8th Parl, 2nd Sess, (24 June 1864)

Document Information

Date: 1864-06-24
By: Province of Canada (Parliament)
Citation: Province of Canada, Parliament, Scrapbook Debates, 8th Parl, 2nd Sess, 1864 at 212-214.
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FRIDAY, June 24, 1864

The Supplies

On motion of Alexander Galt [Sherbrooke, Minister of Finance], the House went into Committee of Supply, Paul Denis [Beauharnois] in the Chair.

The following appropriations were voted—little discussion arising except on the item for the Matapedia Road:—

Completion of Lake St. Peter deep water channel…$45,000
Breakwater at Long Point and Nottawasage Island…$5,560
Improvements on River du Moine…$5,000
Improvements on River Pettawawa…$9,000
Survey of the Intercolonial Railway…$ 20,000
Grant to promote the communication by road, steamboats, and telegraph with the North West Territory…$50,000
Completion of the New Gaol, Quebec, out of the Building and Jury Fund of the District of Quebec…$20,000
Completion of Algoma Court House and Gaol, out of the Upper Canada Building Fund…$8,000
From Building and Jury Fund, St. Francis Gaol…$10,000
Rents and repairs of public buildings…$34,000
Marine Hospital, Quebec…$2,000
Repairs and additions to the buildings at Ottawa…$40,000
Colonization Roads (U. C.)…$50,000
Colonization Roads (L. C.)…$50,000
For the St. Lawrence and New Brunswick Road, by the Melapedia, for military defence; appropriation for 1864, $20,000; appropriation for 1865, $40,000…$60,000

The Committee then rose, reported progress and obtained leave to sit again.


The Supplies

The motion of Alexander Galt [Sherbrooke, Minister of Finance] was then carried, and the House went into Committee of SupplyPaul Denis [Beauharnois] in the Chair.

The following appropriations were voted by the Committee:—

Tug Services between Montreal and Kingston…$8,000
Provincial steamers…$75,000
Light house and coast service…$111,160
Supervisor of Cullers’ office…$70,000
Railway and steamboat inspection…$10,000
Removal to Ottawa…$150,000
Miscellaneous unforeseen expenses…$ 60,000
Miscellaneous printing…$8,000
Post Office…$447,000
Public Works, maintenance…$127,300
Public Works, repairs…$23,000
Public Works miscellaneous…$38,000
Public Works, landing piers below Quebec…$6,000
Territorial surveys…$60,000
Commissions inspections, advertising and other contingent expenses of the Crown lands…$72,000

This terminated the estimates for 1865; and the Committee then rose.

The Speaker having resumed the chair—

The question was put on the concurrence in the reserved items of the supplies for 1864.

On the appropriation of $18,592 for “clothing allowance,” at the rate of $6 per man, to corps in class A, for the year 1862, under the provisions of section 3 of the “Amended Militia Act, 1882”—

Alexander Galt [Sherbrooke, Minister of Finance] said he stated, when this matter was last before the house, that members opposite, including members of the late Government, in opposing the granting of this payment, must have been ignorant of the fact that that Government entered into an engagement to pay class A for clothing, in addition to the payment for drill. He would read documents procured from the Adjustment General’s office to show that class A were promised the payment in question. He would just read a letter from Capt. W. Murray, of Toronto, dated 13th June, 1862, a few days after the passing of the Militia Bill brought in at the time of the crisis. The latter was addressed to the Adjutant-General’s Department (U.C.) and asked the following question:

“Is the payment of 14 days drill to the volunteer companies, under the new Militia Bill, in addition to the allowance for clothing, of $67”

The following was the answer, dated 28th June, 1862, sent from the Adjutant-General’s office;

“Having submitted your letter of the 13th to His Excellency the Commander in Chief, I am directed  to inform you in reply that the allowance for clothing is in addition to the pay for drill.”

Some Hon. Members—Hear, hear.

John Sandfield Macdonald [Corwnall] after looking at the documents) said he never heard of this answer before, nor was his attention ever called to the matter. Had he known of it, he would not have taken it upon himself to contradict in the most positive manner the statement of the honorable member for Montreal Centre (Mr. Rose) that such allowance was to be given class A of the militia. The hon. gentleman was understood to say that in 1862 the Government of which he was Premier decided that Class A should receive $6 per man for drill, but no clothing, and that this was the course followed. They get clothing afterwards when the old uniforms were worn out. Class A had demanded 50 cents a day for drill, as well as clothing [text illegible] of which the Government gave them clothing, putting them in the same position as Class B in this respect. The hon. Gentleman was also understood to oppose the item, in general terms. He stated that from his experience in regard to militia matters he would predict that, if this allowance were granted,

  • (p. 213 in the primary document)

the money would be claimed for men not one-third of whom were in the country or in a position to receive it. Every shilling of the money would be claimed by the officers, for their command, while a large portion of the money, in satisfaction of those officers themselves, would find its way into their pockets, instead of going to the men

Some Hon. Members—Oh, oh.

John Cameron [Peel] said that after seeing this memorandum (the answer to Capt. Murray’s letter, from the Ad-Gen. Dept.) endorsed by His Excellency the Commander-in-Chief, there could be no dispute as to the right of Class A to the payment in question.

Some Hon. Members—Hear, hear.

Luther Holton [Chateauguay]—That only applies to one particular case.

John Cameron [Peel] contented it applied to all. We could not pay one class and refuse to pay the other. His Excellency [Viscount Monck] had endorsed the announcement, as far as regards one company, and if one were paid, there could be no objection to pay all the rest.

Alexander Galt [Sherbrooke, Minister of Finance], to show  that the promise was not confined to one company, read a writ served on Major Dennison, a volunteer officer in Toronto, for the payment of $505 still due for the clothing of his command, which debt had been incurred on the understanding that they would be paid $12 per man. They had only received $6 per man, however, which left this officer responsible for the above sum.

John Rose [Montreal Centre] said he did not wish to raise any discussion about this matter which certainly had been settled by the letter read by the hon. Finance Minister; but he (Mr. R.) must protest against the imputation which the hon. ex-Premier (Mr. J. S. Macdonald) had cast upon the officers of the volunteer force.

Some Hon. Members—Hear, hear.

John Sandfield Macdonald [Cornwall]—I only referred to some of them.

Some Hon. Members—Oh! Oh!

John Rose [Montreal Centre] did believe the imputation, implying as it did, a dishonest disposition on the part of officers of the militia, applied to any single officer of that force.

Some Hon. MembersCheers.

John Rose [Montreal Centre]—It was, therefore, but a poor encouragement for those men who had made very great sacrifices on behalf of the militia, and the country, that they should be alluded to in the terms of which the hon. member for Cornwall [John Sandfield Macdonald] had made use

Some Hon. Members—Hear, hear.

John Rose [Montreal Centre]—He (Mr. Rose) could not believe such an imputation should be thrown upon a class of men who had shown they were second to none in the country for honor, disinteredness and patriotism.

Some Hon. Members—Hear, hear, and loud cheers.

After a debate of considerable length—

Jean-Baptiste-Éric Dorion [Drummond & Arthabaska] moved in amendment to strike out the item.

The amendment was lost on a division of 22 to 58.

William Powell [Carleton]—The hon. member for South Oxford (Mr. Brown) has not voted.

Some Hon. MembersLaughter.

George Brown [Oxford South] said that if obliged to vote he would vote “Nay” but he would prefer, if allowed by the House, not to vote.

Some Hon. Members—Hear, hear.

No opposition was offered, and it was understood that the hon. gentleman’s name was not recorded.

The appropriation was then concurred in.

The item for $2,000 out of the building and Jury fund for the district of Kamouraska was next concurred in.

On the item of $57,463—amount payable to Sundry Municipalities on account of the grants of $1,200 payable out of the Municipalities Fund L.C.

Antoine-Aimé Dorion [Hochelaga] moved that this item be not concurred in.

A debate arose in which Hon. Messrs. Dorion, Galt and Cartier took part.—Finally, Antoine-Aimé Dorion [Hochelaga] withdrew his amendment, and the item was concurred in.

The following items were then concurred in:—

Light Houses coast service…$54,159
Culling timber…$18,000
Railway and steamboat inspection…$6,000
Collection, management and other charges on the revenue…$647,150
To make good the expenditure incurred during the year 1863, as detailed in the statement No. 65, part II of the Public Accounts before the legislature…$ 239,128


The concurrence in the estimates for 1865 was the proceeded with, and the following items were concurred in:—

Governor General’s Secretary’s office…$1,860
Provincial Secretary’s office…$12,576
Provincial Registrar’s office…$5, 077
Receiver general’s office…$10,485
Finance Minister’s Department…$32,080
Executive Council office…$8,950
Department of Public Works…$16,784
Bureau of Agriculture…$15,455
Post Office Department…$24,400
Crown Lands Department…$51,513
Attorney and Solicitor General East…$2,410
Attorney and Solicitor General West…$3,500
Contingencies of Public Departments…$60,000
Administration of Justice in Lower Canada…$150,670
Administration of Justice in Upper Canada…$34,525
Penitentiaries, Reformatories, and Prison Inspection…$156,000
Legislative Council…$48,580
Legislative Assembly…$217,040
General expense…$39,380
Literary and Scientific Institutions…$14,800
Hospitals and charities…$285, 730
Geological Survey…$20,000
Arts, agriculture and statistics…$7,000
Agricultural Societies…$8,000
Indian Annuities…$4,400
Ottawa Buildings (additional)…$300,000
Welland Canal…$60,000
Lachine Canal…$9,000
Carleton and Grenville Canal…$11,000
Rideau Canal…$11,000
Lake St. Peter—completion of deep-water channel…$46,000
Inland Lake and River Lights…$5,560
Improvements on the River du Moine…$5,000
Improvements on the River Pettawawa…$9,000

The items, $20,000 for the Intercolonial Railway Survey, was carried after some discussion.

Another tedious debate arose on the vote for $50,000, as a “grant to promise the communication by road, steamboat and telegraph with the North West Territory.”

John Sandfield Macdonald [Cornwall] moved

That the item be not voted, in the absence of any definite scheme on the subject by the Government.

The motion was lost on the division, and the appropriation was concurred in.

The following items were next concurred in:—

New Goal, Quebec…$20,000
Algoma Court House…$8,000
St. Francis Goal…$10,000
Rents and Repairs of Public Buildings…$76,000
Colonization Roads, U.C…$50,000
Roads Bridges C. E…$55,000
Ocean and River Steam Service…$83,000
Light Houses and [text illegible] service…$111,160
Culling Timber…$10,000
Railway and Steamboat inspections…$16,000
Removal to Ottawa…$150,650
Miscellaneous Printing…$8,600
Miscellaneous unforeseen expenses of the Public Service…$60,000
Public Works…$264,300
Territorial Surveys…$60,000
Commissions, Inspections, Advertising and other counting expenses of the Crown Lands, woods and forests, and Ordnance lands…$132,000


The Supplementary Estimates

The Speaker laid before the house a message from His Excellency the Governor General [Viscount Monck], transmitting the supplementary estimates, and recommending the same to the consideration of the House.

The Supplies

On motion of Alexander Galt [Sherbrooke, Minister of Finance], the House went into Committee of supply on the supplementary estimates—Robert Macfarlane [Perth] in the Chair.

The following items (for 1864) passed through Committee:—

Administration of Justice West…$1,000
Legislative Assembly (services of G.W. Wicksteed…1,000
Education West…$1,000
Education East…$500
Public Works and Buildings…$12,592
Indian Annuities…$2,600

The following items (for 1863) were passed through Committee:—

Civil Government…$100
Legislative Assembly…$500
Education West, viz: Contingencies for U. U. Department…$500

On the item “$4000 Trinity College, Toronto” a long and tedious debate, involving the whole question of grants to sectarian educational institutions, took place. The appropriation was finally carried.

The following items were then carried, some discussion arising on nearly every one, viz:—

Sandwich College…$ 600
Grammar Schools…$400
Education L.C…$5,000
Hospitals and Charities…$2,000
Repairs to slides and booms on the Ottawa…$ 50,000
Repairs to slides and booms on the Coulonges…$ 15,000
Road at Caughnawaga Indian Reserve…$ 1,200
U.C. Improvement Fund – Balance due to the several municipalities…$40,000
Shipping Master’s office…$1,200

The Committee then rose and reported.

The Speaker having resumed the Chair,

The Report of the Committee of the Whole on the Supplementary Estimates was concurred in without discussion.


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